Urq project

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  • diesel des
    S2Forum Possessed
    • Feb 2004
    • 3896

    #496
    So my working theory is that there was knock on cylinder 4. This blew the gasket into cylinder 3 and 5. That melted the head, block, burnt the pistons slightly and damaged some valves. The bores actually look ok, with only the odd light mark and I would run it ok. This issue is the deck is damaged and burnt and due to how I have it skimmed to get the squish I wanted I can't skim it further.

    Obviously the head is scrap, which is unfortunate as it's a jnl race spec head with oversized super tech valves etc. A few pistons are damaged from having molten metal blowing about on them. Also the turbo is finished as the turbine wheel is damaged. That's not strictly replaceable, so I need another gt35 billet. Totaling it up it could easily be 5k damage.

    On a better note the oil came out clean, with no metal on the magnetic sump plug, so I think the crank and rods could be ok.

    I will get the injectors tested to see if cylinder 4 was lean. Is cylinder 4 the weak one on these engines? The engine never ran lean on the wideband and my timing looks conservative, so I really don't know.

    Sent from my Moto G (5) using Tapatalk

    Comment

    • 4WDrifter
      S2Forum Extremist
      • Nov 2012
      • 1251
      • Country: Northern Ireland

      #497
      Bummer mate!
      1996 S2 ABY Coupe silver
      2003 S3 8L dolphin grey
      2014 RS4 B8 prism silver

      Comment

      • david1980
        S2Forum Extremist
        • May 2014
        • 1025
        • Country: United Kingdom

        #498
        Damn

        How hard is it to source the damaged bits and would you get JNL racing to do anymore work after the comments on here lately about substandard work?

        Might be worth looking into a newer 07k if you are having to go back to the starting point or just doing a quick/cheap build and enjoying the car so you don't lose heart.

        Comment

        • diesel des
          S2Forum Possessed
          • Feb 2004
          • 3896

          #499
          I would definitely use jnl again as I have had no issues with his work. I also thought 07k but that would need so much work. I just need to build this again with a new block and head and it all fits. I have a spare stock head. Hopefully a TDI block isn't to hard to find. Need to price up some bits next week.

          Sent from my Moto G (5) using Tapatalk

          Comment

          • david1980
            S2Forum Extremist
            • May 2014
            • 1025
            • Country: United Kingdom

            #500
            What was the final spec of this engine before tragedy happened?

            Would you go full spec head straight away?

            Comment

            • S2central.net
              Retired OG Mod
              • Jul 2003
              • 16590
              • Country: Northern Ireland

              #501
              Yikes - that is an expensive gasket failure... would be very interesting to know if a lean running injector in #4 was the root cause.
              Paul Nugent
              Webmaster http://S2central.net
              Administrator http://S2forum.com

              1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
              2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
              2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

              Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

              There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't

              Comment

              • diesel des
                S2Forum Possessed
                • Feb 2004
                • 3896

                #502
                Originally posted by david1980
                What was the final spec of this engine before tragedy happened?

                Would you go full spec head straight away?
                The engine was a:
                2.5 stroker
                x beam 159mm rifle drilled rods,
                forged pistons,
                8.15:1 Compression ratio,
                1200cc injectors,
                3 fuel pumps with surge tanks,
                baffeled sump with an accusump,
                oversized valves and "race spec" head work,
                7a cams
                Tube exhaust manifold
                GT35R with 84mm Billet compressor,
                Large intercooler,
                Seperate exhausts for the turbo and wastgate,
                Vems etc

                Im not sure in what direction to go at the moment. I do have a bone stock head in storage, but would at least change the exhaust valves to supertech or similar.

                A few folks have asked about my maps. Im happy to show these. Remember this was a starting point i felt was safe, and i intended on tweeking from there.

                Lambda target.


                VE map


                Timing Map


                You do not have permission to view this gallery.
                This gallery has 3 photos.

                Comment

                • diesel des
                  S2Forum Possessed
                  • Feb 2004
                  • 3896

                  #503
                  No map comments? Anyone specialise in mapping vems in the UK?

                  Anyhow I had the injectors tested while I watched at holeshot racing. This guy is properly mental in such a good way. He builds bike engines, generally but not always with a turbo or even 2 attached. Proper turbos. Efr9180. Gt42. 910 bhp at the rear wheel mental. He holds a world wheelie record and build bikes for that ghost rider fella.

                  Anyhow the injectors are perfect...

                  Sent from my Moto G (5) using Tapatalk

                  Comment

                  • Airwolf
                    S2Forum Fanatic
                    • Jun 2017
                    • 79
                    • Country: Norway

                    #504
                    Why are you using 3 fuel pumps instead of 1 big one?

                    Comment

                    • diesel des
                      S2Forum Possessed
                      • Feb 2004
                      • 3896

                      #505
                      Originally posted by Airwolf
                      Why are you using 3 fuel pumps instead of 1 big one?
                      One pump is high flow low pressure and it pumps fuel from the foam filled fuel cell to a surge tank. This pump keeps the surge tank filled, and it overflows back into the main tank. The surge tank has the 2x walbro 450 e85 pumps in parallel that deliver the high pressure to the fuel rail. The return from the fuel rail goes back to the surge tank. I went with 2 high pressure pumps so I would have plenty of fuel for e85 or even methanol at my desired power rating.

                      I know of no single pump system that would be able to match the performance of this setup.

                      Sent from my Moto G (5) using Tapatalk

                      Comment

                      • diesel des
                        S2Forum Possessed
                        • Feb 2004
                        • 3896

                        #506
                        Oh and the 3 pumps I have can draw up to 50 amps so it isn't a small setup.

                        This is the guy who tested the injectors.



                        Sent from my Moto G (5) using Tapatalk

                        Comment

                        • Error404
                          Super Moderator
                          • Mar 2007
                          • 19789
                          • Country: United Kingdom

                          #507
                          Your VE table is virtually flat - for example your VE figure at 100 (kPa?) 800rpm is the same as 250 (kPa?) 6000rpm - VE should be an air mass model. These numbers alone cannot be correct, unless there is something else to the equation - to be honest I have never even looked at VEMS though - how is the fuelling calculated using the VE table? Is there more overlay tables or variables? I am sure some of the VEMS experts will be along shortly.
                          Timing looks pretty sensible in my opinion, of course depends entirely on other factors.
                          Panthero Coupé quattro 20vt
                          Indigo ABY coupé
                          Imola B6 S4 Avant

                          Comment

                          • Airwolf
                            S2Forum Fanatic
                            • Jun 2017
                            • 79
                            • Country: Norway

                            #508
                            Originally posted by diesel des
                            One pump is high flow low pressure and it pumps fuel from the foam filled fuel cell to a surge tank. This pump keeps the surge tank filled, and it overflows back into the main tank. The surge tank has the 2x walbro 450 e85 pumps in parallel that deliver the high pressure to the fuel rail. The return from the fuel rail goes back to the surge tank. I went with 2 high pressure pumps so I would have plenty of fuel for e85 or even methanol at my desired power rating.

                            I know of no single pump system that would be able to match the performance of this setup.

                            Sent from my Moto G (5) using Tapatalk
                            I see, so if one of your pumps fail your engine can Lean out for the lack of fuel instead of having one pump that stops your engine if fails.

                            Weldon delieveres big fuel pump that have the ability to do sugetion and pumping

                            Comment

                            • S2central.net
                              Retired OG Mod
                              • Jul 2003
                              • 16590
                              • Country: Northern Ireland

                              #509
                              Originally posted by diesel des

                              This is the guy who tested the injectors.


                              Bikers are just nuts - especially Irish bikers - leather clad organ donors.

                              Anyway... getting back to the plot, if your injectors are perfect then it begs the bigger question of what caused that cylinder to melt down and cause damage to its neighbours - are both pumps at full health ?
                              If you have one that is underperforming you would expect to see some lean running under high load across all cylinders - and you said the WB02 readings were consistently good - scratching my head why one cylinder would be so adversely affected.
                              Paul Nugent
                              Webmaster http://S2central.net
                              Administrator http://S2forum.com

                              1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
                              2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
                              2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

                              Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

                              There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't

                              Comment

                              • Error404
                                Super Moderator
                                • Mar 2007
                                • 19789
                                • Country: United Kingdom

                                #510
                                Quoting Dmitri - Cyl 4 always knocks first.
                                Panthero Coupé quattro 20vt
                                Indigo ABY coupé
                                Imola B6 S4 Avant

                                Comment

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