Hacking the Motronic ECU (Audi RS2)

[A80Avant]

well, that is true in one sence, but when you have the external wastegate and a stiff spring, you are trying to allow a big turbo to build up boost as fast as mechanically possible and therefore one of the ways to do that is to be able to allow for a fast TPS response as well.

On VEMS you have 2 separate tables, one for TPS vs Boost and one for the boost curve itself(simplest way to control boost), otherwise you can still have a 3d map of boost vs rpm as well.

I usually ask for 90% of rpm calculated boost when throttle is above 50% pressed, because on simple overtakes on low revs where the turbo is not kicking in due to lag, i want to be able to have a fast responce without having to go WOT all the time. Therefore on low revs, the turbo along with the N75valve is basicaly trying to keep the wastegate shut so that the turbo can build up the pressure fast. I dont think this is causing any more stress to the turbo itself. I understand that keeping 50% TPS and asking for 2bar of boost is more stresfull, but usually when the turbo is in the rpm range that it can give me that boost i do use WOT.

For me i think that having a more responsive TPSvsBoost allows for a more subjective and driver specific driving habit, and i do like it.On smaller turbos which spool faster it indeed may pose a bit more stress to it, it will surge more often, but i dont believe that it will extremelly alter the turbo's life

[prj]

Yep, pretty much.
You basically let the turbo spin hard all the time, building boost and then you strangle that boost (airflow) using the throttle plate.

That is why in proper electronic boost control the target boost table is a 3D table with throttle position taken into account.
This makes throttle response more adjustable and reduces unnecessary stress on the turbo, when you just want to accelerate slightly. Plus there is less backpressure during non-WOT operating conditions, which exceed spring boost, as the wastegate is open.

With our old external wastegates this is more limited, but with the newer internal ones, you can have a much wider modulation of boost pressure, thus further extending the life of the turbo.

[Dan]

why are you putting the turbo on uneccesary stress if you are asking for more boost on part throttle?

I guess the argument would be that you're demanding more airflow, by asking for more boost, but then restricting that airflow with the throttle (increasing backpressure).

[A80Avant]

why are you putting the turbo on uneccesary stress if you are asking for more boost on part throttle?

[Dybro]

Buy an aftermarket ECU.

Ok thank's.. then I will properly choose an after market ecu.. I have been playing around with the VEMS software, and unfortunately I don't like it.. I think all the settings are confusing(especially the triggering settings) Also I think that the map-switching possibilities don't satisfy my needs(I managed to find 2 settings only, a year ago I think). I would like 3 or 4 different settings.....

But I have found an ecu that should do all this. It is the adaptronic 1280s - 12 inj. 8 ign. and has almost all the fancy extra ecu functions plus PLC-like logic for custom functions. I really like the PLC-logic style.
Some people in a tuning shop in Holland is actually preparing the 1280 for common rail diesel. That's pretty cool IMO.

If some of you would like to check out the adaptronic 1280 software you can get it here http://adaptronic.com.au/files/e1280...3000_Setup.exe

If you want all that you could just go with VEMS.

Daw Jonas. Som du nok kan se, så er jeg ikke umiddelbart så begejstret for VEMS'en. Men da der er lavvande i kassen fordi jeg studerer, så kunne jeg måske godt fristes alligevel. Kan du hjælpe med opsætning af trigger + diverse på en standard AAN??? tror du det er nemt at sælge vems'en om 3-5 år(55-pin typen)?
På forhånd tak

[prj]

create multiple fuel- and ignition settings so that I can run it like a multifuel engine (gasoline ethanol, different blends of it. maybe also LPG/Autogas in the future).

LPG/Autogas always has a separate ECU, which goes between the stock ECU and the injector outputs.
For Ethanol/Gasoline, it is possible to make a hardware switch.

Maybe I will use an ethanol-content-sensor(not sure yet - I could also choose to have a rotary switch to change map manually) actually 4 or 5 fuel- and ignition-settings + 4 or 5 cold start settings would be enough (15 in total)

Useless. One good setting is all that is needed.

a switch to select an other maf-sensor.

Useless, you will not fit different MAF's depending on your mood. Also, it took me two months to make a SW for a different MAF sensor.

a switch to change the injector-constant-value

Useless, if you change injectors, you remap. Or if it's E85/Gasoline setting, you just change setting via hardware switch.

improve the throttle response(really think it's "lazy", and it is already chip-tuned)

Boost is based on TPS value. And it is good that way, because it saves the turbo from unneeded stress.
If you want full boost, just press your foot down. There is a reason why the throttle isn't "on/off".

Anti-lag system if possible

Not possible.

I also want to have motronic converted to wide-band-lambda if possible.

Not possible. Use a wideband controller that has narrowband output. MAF is precise enough. Motronic does not need to run closed loop all the time.

Can the trigger-logic in M2.3.2 be converted to 60-2 + cam-sync ? would be very nice in case of a flywheel configuration changes

Not possible.

Buy an aftermarket ECU.

[Jonas_R]

If you want all that you could just go with VEMS.

[Dybro]

Sure. I even had to rewrite some bits of it...

For you, perhaps yes, since you lack the necessary skills. 8051 instruction set is tiny though...
That said, you don't need to disassemble anything to tune.

What are you trying to do?

OK. assume this is good news...

Maybe my plans are to extreme for a beginner. But anyway - here they are:

create multiple fuel- and ignition settings so that I can run it like a multifuel engine (gasoline ethanol, different blends of it. maybe also LPG/Autogas in the future).

Maybe I will use an ethanol-content-sensor(not sure yet - I could also choose to have a rotary switch to change map manually) actually 4 or 5 fuel- and ignition-settings + 4 or 5 cold start settings would be enough (15 in total)

a switch to select an other maf-sensor.

a switch to change the injector-constant-value

improve the throttle response(really think it's "lazy", and it is already chip-tuned)

Anti-lag system if possible

I also want to have motronic converted to wide-band-lambda if possible.


Can the trigger-logic in M2.3.2 be converted to 60-2 + cam-sync ? would be very nice in case of a flywheel configuration changes



If all this is to difficult and time consuming(sure it is time consuming) I might want to go for an after-market ecu. But not many after-market ecu's will support the 135-audi-trigger, and this is why I like the old Bosch.

[prj]

Has anyone tried disassemble the the binary-code and found some interesting stuff??

Sure. I even had to rewrite some bits of it...

At the moment I'm fidling around with ida-pro and the AAN binaries. But I don't know much about disassembling, assembling-language or the motronic 2.3.2 pcb.

Is such an attempt trying understand motronic just waste of time...?

For you, perhaps yes, since you lack the necessary skills. 8051 instruction set is tiny though...
That said, you don't need to disassemble anything to tune.

If not, I would be happy if someone could supply me with some useful info.

What are you trying to do?

[Dybro]

disassembling AAN-code.....

Has anyone tried disassemble the the binary-code and found some interesting stuff??
At the moment I'm fidling around with ida-pro and the AAN binaries. But I don't know much about disassembling, assembling-language or the motronic 2.3.2 pcb.

Is such an attempt trying understand motronic just waste of time...? If not, I would be happy if someone could supply me with some useful info.

Thanks

[prj]

Stop looking at that .xdf.
It is useless, it is just a xdf from another car... it contains no useful information.

[newborg]

RS2.xdf

I have been playing with the RS2.xdf
on Audi RS2 0261203543 1267358668
Did I do the right? The 8406rpm seems high?

Title ="Rev Limit - Stop Fuel"
Address =0x3B0
75h=117
983600/117=8406rpm

Title ="Rev Limit - Re-start Fuel"
Address =0x3B3
80h=129
983600/129=7524rpm

[prj]

Thanks for the help mate. Much appreciated!

Don't know if that is sarcasm or not, but the only way you can find out which value to change offline is to know LOAD and RPM where you are running lean.
And even then, unless you understand Motronic, you will not know how much to change the value... and even if you do... and it is the last value in the table, you will STILL have to find it by testing...

This is why I am saying you /need/ an emulator.
Taking out the chip out of the ECU takes a lot of time... of course you could use something like this (which I use because I don't have two emulators):


But without the emulator, you still will have to each time stop the engine of the car (not good for the turbo!) take the chip out, erase it, burn it again, put it back, start the car... not feasible.
Get the emulator (Ostrich 2.0), and I can tell you where and how to change the table.

[Jonas_R]

Thanks for the help mate. Much appreciated!

[prj]

I could buy an emulator, but it would be overkill since all I want is a bit more fuel at the top end.

The car has a map made by a tuner but seems to be just a bit lean 0.84 at the top end and I wanted to add just a little more fuel. So reading your above post I assumed it was a matter of changing the fuel map values.

Ok, and which value are you going to change?
The map is 16x16, not 16x1. So how do you know what the load is where it is running lean? Especially if it is only one spot.

You don't... and if you change everything at the same time, you will run mega rich in some transients.
If you think a 200 EUR emulator is overkill.... then go to a tuner.