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Do the S2 and RS2 share the same master cylinder? If they do, then it's big enough for 4 Porsche calipers and should be enough for two massive ones on the front and two comparatively small calipers on the rear compared to 4 Porsche calipers... or am I assuming too much ?
Do the S2 and RS2 share the same master cylinder? If they do, then it's big enough for 4 Porsche calipers and should be enough for two massive ones on the front and two comparatively small calipers on the rear compared to 4 Porsche calipers... or am I assuming too much ?
If you search the forum you'll find that it's not required. There are technical posts detailing the MC capabilities
The RS2 has the same MC as the S2 and they use Porsche brakes as standard and the big red conversion doesn't require MC change either.
I appreciate your experience but the BMW and Audi can't be compared in this regard.
Mmmm..
I am talking about the RS6 calipers though mate. Specs for these are required to make a technical comparison really re S2 vs RS6 MC's. (and I dont have them!!)
Didnt realise the S2 and RS2 MC's were the same though?! my mistake
The RS2 has the same MC as the S2 and they use Porsche brakes as standard and the big red conversion doesn't require MC change either.
Although a beautiful conversion, I'd say my only worry would be the MC too.
The thing with the RS2 and 996 monoblock conversions is that the volume of fluid required to move the pads x amount remains (to within ~5%) the same as original spec girling calipers. The twin pots have bigger dia pistons admittedly, but those two pistons have to push the pads form both sides using the floating caliper mechanism. On a 4-pot, the smaller pistons actually do push from both sides. So when you do the calculations, Xmm^3 of fluid equates to Ymm of pad travel. And it is the same for 4-pot porsche or S2 Girlings.
The main reason people don't want to use 996 rear calipers is the complete difference in internal piston cavity sizes. As a result the possibility of throwing the system out of balance.
If the new fronts require lots more fluid to get the movement, then who is to say that the rears (by standard proportioning) are not also getting much more fluid - hence applying more braking force in proportion to the fronts? Wouldn't want the rears locking up early.........
This is of course assuming the S2 doesn't have a self adjusting proportioning / bias system. It might well do, I don't know.........
sorry for the backward edit - but don't want to clog up Ben's thread
But I'd totally disagree with you Corey RE the above link reading like an advert. It reads to me like a well informed and intelligent comment on factors which most of us like to gloss over. The stop-tech bit seems minimal and more than justified. I suggest others have a skim.
sorry for the backward edit - but don't want to clog up Ben's thread
But I'd totally disagree with you Corey RE the above link reading like an advert. It reads to me like a well informed and intelligent comment on factors which most of us like to gloss over. The stop-tech bit seems minimal and more than justified. I suggest others have a skim.
I lost interest in their comments the moment they stated
Originally posted by STOPTECH
Being the trained high-speed individual that you are, you immediately lift off the gas, push in the clutch (you are driving a manual transmission, right?), and simultaneously nail the brake pedal...but in the heat of the moment you hit it a little too hard.
during any high speed advanced driver education one rule they teach you in emercency braking is not to push the clutch in, as the engine braking aids in decreasing your stopping distances.
The rest looks like it has been quoted from a text book tbh, but yes I agree it is good reading, and I do agree with what is in the content totally.
Can I just say something - pedal travel where nothing happens is also indicitive of air in the brake lines. This may be because the brakes need a bit more bleeding, or it maybe because you need more fluid in the system in the first place (fill that reservoir up!). Agree the master cylinder may ultimately also come in to play, I don't knowall the technical specs, but Lee didn't change the MS on his phat AP system and I don't recall him ever saying he had issues with pedal travel, and as discussed above, the RS2 has the same MS as the S2 even on the full factory upgrade brake system, which had a lot more caliper fluid capacity than the stock S2 brakes...
Bleed the system again, that's my advice, oh and make sure to use good brake lines, none of that rubber flexihose stuff!
Ex S2 owner, now running around in an A4 Avant quattro...
Wow! Missed this one and I have only been out for a day!
What a thoroughly impressive setup!
A few of my thoughts on this very interesting thread.
@ Ben, Bry & Andy. What a lovely DIY effort! I love the BBC. IMO the intermediate bracket is a lovely simple solution, and I would have no problem driving with the double bracket setup and it works from a cost/timescale point of view.
I cannot see any reason why a single bracket replacement could not be fairly easily designed and made too though. From the look of the photo's you would only need to machine a block of ali to include the RS6 flat mounting faces of the original bracket. My only slight concern would be the offset of the caliper mounting point from the original lugs on the hub. I am not sure of the set up on an RS6 but would guess that the hub carrier is considerably beefier than the S2 one and obviously has the mounting point for the Caliper further in.
I area I would be most worried about is the 2 off M10 (or M12?) bolts mounting the intermediate bracket to the hub. I would say that is the possibly the weakest link in that set up. There could be some potential for bending moments on the bolts as the have more force being exerted by much larger calipers AND have extra leverage due to the increased off set from the hub/disc. However unless you are tracking on very sticky rubber, fast road use of these brakes should see the mounting hardware a with a few factors safety left. I cannot see problems with suspension compnents bending unless you are bottoming out the suspension under braking I think the tyres will give up first...
On the subject of pedal travel, I too would suspect some more bleeding may required, especially if you are experiencing pedal travel BEFORE the pads first bite. I would expect a bit more travel during the pad application because of the extra fluid being needed to be moved.
Overall an awesome set up though that looks stunning!
Congtatulations on a good job!
Cheers,
Steve.
The Perfectionist
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Audi Class Concours winner Stoner Park 2014, ADI Concours D'Elegance Class Winner 2008, Runner up 2014. Winner, S2Forum Show'n'Shine Billing 2006 & 2008.
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I think the tyres will give up first...
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