What happened to Johnny's Engine?

[4WheelDrifter]

I really feel sorry for poor Johnny Boy. I hope his car gets sorted soon.
But what the hell happened to his engine?

What's the cause of this disaster? Maybe we could all learn something here.

Could the boost spikes Johnny was experiencing put the necessary extra strain on a potentially weak cylinder head, causing it to fail? I'm not sure, but it would be nice to get to the root cause, whatever it was.

Go easy guys. Keep it clean.

[BRY]

it's broken

[4WheelDrifter]

Don't baffle me with complex engineering speak.

[BRY]

You forgot the previous chain of events - massive boost leak - someone pressure tested and could not test it properly, someone was told which hoses to visually check - obviously didn't. Someone changed the WGFV to a fuc4ed one (as well as being the wrong one) and didn't tighten the hose onto one of the WGFV connections correctly. Now you have the turbo able to spin up to as much as it can. Add into that the kinked hose to the ECU so the ECU has no idea what is happening - how many human errors, due to incompetance, has caused the car to run badly for a long period of time?

You should not just focus on one thing in a small timeframe - a lot more has happened than has been said here. A lot of people have had boost spikes, or ran boost controllers, etc and they have not caused blown exhaust ports.

Firstly I would like to ask if this is Minhea or Doug?
I’ll take it as Doug as there isn’t the Minhea signature, or are you guys just going to log on as MRCtuning?

Your points are valid; however you are overlooking some facts:

1) There were several people round at Johnny's trying to fix his boost leak on both occasions
2) Johnny said that certain items had been checked and therefore weren't re-checked.
3) We went round to do our best and in the end we fixed nothing, and we charged nothing because we're not a business, we are a group of guys trying to help a forum member out.

As I previously stated:
There are people with a lot more S2 specific experience than us on this forum and indeed not on this forum, I can admit that, I am a big enough person to able to do so. You are a professional tuning company, you are supposed to know more than us.
We don’t claim anything – We don’t charge anything.
I offer theories based on facts, what are you offering at this point in time? A load of BS which has nothing to do with the original issue.

Immediately after we had failed to find the boost leak, the car came to you to be fixed and you gave it a clean bill of health for going to Castle Combe.

Are you now saying that there were problems you hadn't solved?
That’s what I read from the above waffle.

In your previous post you stated that the cylinder head was always going to fail.
You have tuned the car more than once and it has been to you for the boost leak to be fixed, you claim to check things before tuning vehicles.
Your car had the same work done on the cylinder head and you have stated that it was a very poor job and had given you problems, which you don’t specify.
You have stated that you are aware that the heads originate from the same garage, why have you not warned your customer of the imminent failure?

The ports have been opened out too much - it was only a matter of time. I expect he got the head done at the same place my head was done by the previous owner (both work was done by the same garage) - not a good job done on either of them - both have had problems due to bad workmanship.

I fail to see the reasoning in your post, you must be getting too technical for me, are you saying that a boost leak caused the head to crack?
Because that's the smelliest BS I've come across.
If you're not saying that then what is the point of your post?

It's a distraction from the original issue, which you are not addressing.

You stated that the boost spikes and the head cracking were not related, I am still waiting for you to explain that one with some facts. - Like everyone else.

Let’s go one point at a time so everyone can follow us.
I'll say now that if you, or anyone else, can show that our efforts to fix a boost leak caused the damage to Johnny's engine he can have the RS2 unit off me - gratis.

Will you do the same?

I would consider your answer very carefully as you have already stated that you tuned an engine which was going to fail:

The ports have been opened out too much - it was only a matter of time. I expect he got the head done at the same place my head was done by the previous owner (both work was done by the same garage) - not a good job done on either of them - both have had problems due to bad workmanship.

Why don't you try answering the questions raised, as they are raised, like having a debate, you know, on the internet, whats it called? - A forum.


I don't think that I have the engineering background or qualifications for all this mudslinging you seem to like doing, I base my arguments on facts. I think you should start stating some facts and add to the debate, instead of making unsubstantiated claims without any justification. Remember you got personal not me. I kept to the facts

Chilling in a freezer

BRY

[S2Roo]

Looks like this could be an interestin thread.

Not wanting to get involved with a debate I know nothing about but.... can someone explain to me exactly what the head work done was, and how it may have/did cause the engine to fail.

If it was becasue the exhaust ports were taken back too much, does anyone know how much they were take back, or what the most you are allowed to take off them is.

Thanks

S2Roo

[S2 Ant]

On a lighter note, i hope he gets it sorted quickly, as his car was really really nice!
I never thought a white S2 would look good and his was the first one i had seen, truely mint!!!

Having only heard about these events thru posts on here i'll follow this one closely, however, as Bry has said, can we keep it to the point and factual without the need of rubbishing people with arrogant attitudes.

[S2Roo]

Was his a J 3B plate pearl white one??

A pearl white 3B has appeared outside a Audi dealer up the road from me, had some alloys and the S2 badge was missing from the front.

I would like to know about the head work, to make sure I haven't already/ don't in the future make the same error.

S2Roo

[BRY]

Having only heard about these events thru posts on here i'll follow this one closely, however, as Bry has said, can we keep it to the point and factual without the need of rubbishing people with arrogant attitudes.

Nice one!
I'll stick to that.
I reserve the right to defend myself!

[Doug_RS2]

Waffle on Bry.

We have never charged Johnny for any work other than the remap.

He came to us to fix his boost leak - We diagnosed all the problems, made the car safe to drive and he got a part replaced elsewhere after seeing us. You need to get your facts right before you post.

I warned Johnny witihin the first 10 minutes of the first time I met him, of the issues I had with my car and the workmanship quality.

Not being a company does not mean you should do a incompetant job.

The head needs to be sent to a head shop to be checked - as we have told Johnny.

I am still waiting for your technical explanation of how high boost has cracked the head. Johnny was running just over 30psi during mapping. I run close to 35psi.

A boost spike means the car had something wrong - you should be thinking what caused that - and that might be the cause of the problem.

[BRY]

I am still waiting for your technical explanation of how high boost has cracked the head. Johnny was running just over 30psi during mapping. I run close to 35psi.

A boost spike means the car had something wrong - you should be thinking what caused that - and that might be the cause of the problem.

That's more like it

There was a boost boost spike, the car did not feel "right" straight after this and began to run really badly, Johnny stopped the car. Recovery man arrives and then Johnny trys to pull the car onto the recovery vehicle. One big bang later, there is dead engine due to oil / water in the no 2 cylinder causing the engine to self destruct.
No water / oil loss prior to the boost spike for 10k miles including two rolling road sessions and Castle Combe.
After the boost spike and before the engine hydro-locked Johnny said it had emptied the expansion tank. Do you know where it went? I can guess.
Why would a cylinder head suddenly crack after such a long time in service?
What parameters could have changed which would bring about this failure?
Could it be an increase in load on the cylinder head?
What would cause this increase in load?
Lets examine the operating conditions and see if we can find a sudden change in them.
35psi boost spike would be an increase in one of the operating parameters by about 35-40%.
I think I've discovered the reason for the "sudden" change in parameters which resulted in the failure.

Doug has already stated that the head had been weakened by porting, so you could argue that this is the straw that broke the camels back, a 40% increase in boost is a big straw.
I am saying that without the boost spike it wouldn't have happened at all. There is a fine line between an optimised part and a failure and perhaps this cylinder head was too near to that line.

That's my explanation can you point out what's wrong with it?
What EM and turbo are you running?
What pressures build up in the EM and exhaust ports with 35psi of boost?
Which head are you running 35psi of boost on?
What do you think caused the boost spikes?

[AndyP]

It was myself and Bry who originally went over to Johnny’s when he first posted about having a boost leak. At the time neither of us had met Johnny or even spoken to him ( top bloke by the way!! ) we simply volunteered because we had a boost leak kit and a portable compressor. The work that we did was not done in an incompetent manner and I resent that implication . The boost leak kit that I have is the same as most people have on the forum and this does not test the intercooler to throttle body, the test that we did proved that none of the other hoses were leaking and they could now be crossed off the list. The WGFV that was fitted came from working car, the fact that it turned out to be FUBARD’d I cannot explain. As for the kink in the ECU hose, well Johnny’s boost gauge is T’d into that hose at the ECU and as the gauge was still showing 25psi we did not think to check this.
I do not claim to be an expert on these cars, and I never claimed to be able to fix Johnny car, I simply volunteered to help out a fellow forum member who was having problems with his car, to find out I’m now being called incompetent seems a little unfair to say the least.
I'll take my camera tonight and try to get some clear pics of the cracks, then maybe we can get to the bottom of this.

Andy sub zero!!

[Doug_RS2]

That's more like it


That's my explanation can you point out what's wrong with it?
What EM and turbo are you running?
What pressures build up in the EM and exhaust ports with 35psi of boost?
Which head are you running 35psi of boost on?
What do you think caused the boost spikes?

Same as johnny on EM, Bigger turbo.

35psi is still less than 1.9:1 PR on my car. 32psi is on the limit of 2:1 PR on an RS2 turbo setup.

I'm running the same spec head as J.

I cannot expalin the boost spikes - as johnny has just double checked the WGFV to turbo hose and he thinks it is ok. He never got boost spikes on it before - something has gone wrong somewhere else. A boost spike is not the cause - it is the effect of something else. There are no melted/damaged valves, seats or chamber due to heat (or so I could see at 4 in the morning when it was pulled).

[Doug_RS2]

I did not mean any offence Andy - but you have to do a full a pressure test including the throttle body hose - as that is one of the most common hoses to break. It is the easiest way to test the car - and what I thought everyone did - I only do partial pressure tests if there are multiple leaks. Without doing a test that way how do you see 25psi in the inlet manifold?

We got the car with the the WGFV not working and a hose not fitted to it - someone has left a hose loose.

[BRY]

Same as johnny on EM, Bigger turbo.

35psi is still less than 1.9:1 PR on my car. 32psi is on the limit of 2:1 PR on an RS2 turbo setup.

I'm running the same spec head as J.

I cannot expalin the boost spikes - as johnny has just double checked the WGFV to turbo hose and he thinks it is ok. He never got boost spikes on it before - something has gone wrong somewhere else. A boost spike is not the cause - it is the effect of something else. There are no melted/damaged valves, seats or chamber due to heat (or so I could see at 4 in the morning when it was pulled).

Could the 35psi on an Rs2 turbo be the cause of this failure then?
I don't know the figures for all the turbos and can't remember how the ports have deformed when they cracked, but could there be enough back pressure from the turbo to cause a high pressure area in the ports which has forced the weakest part to crack? Johnny cruises @ 100 plus on the m-ways (usually @ 30,000 feet, Mr Officer), so the engine would be nice and hot.
What do you reckon?
Lets cut all the crap and work out what went wrong

[Doug_RS2]

Sal ran silly boost levels on my old RS2 turbo on his car for months - well off his 30psi boost gauge, doing over 400bhp.

I honestly don't think a 1 off boost spike would cause that in a car that has ran well for a long time. But I cannot think what else it is. Ideally we would get the head chopped to see the wall thickness - or see if there was a flaw in the head. Something caused the spike in the first place - trouble is we can't run the car in the same spec so we might not know what it was.

Ask Tom about running too much boost - he keeps breaking his wastgate hose from turbo to wgfv - but he still runs the car with it - doh - and that is getting abused a lot more than johnny would abuse his.

Strip the head and see if there are anything else that will point to anything being wrong