S2 Engine Oil

[PeteRR]

Just been to millers website and it recomends 5w40?????

I spoke to one of their Development Chemists a few weeks back, he agreed 5W/40 was too thin and 10W-60 (Millers CFS or Castrol RS) was the best choice for these engines

[Fat Audi 80]

Milnea recommends Castrol 10W 60. That's good enough for me

[Jay]

I sell Millers CFS 10W60. This is available in 5 litre tubs unlike Castrol RS so it works out a lot cheaper. It is a motorsport oil and very suitable for our highly stressed engines. It is designed for a constant 120C and tolerates 150C intermittently. I have no evidence to prove that Castrol RS is any better than the Millers Oil Jay: can you produce lab reports to substantiate that "Castrol RS 10w 60 is the best stuff out there"? I studied tribology and also attended courses and seminars on tribology when I was a Spacecraft Mechanisms Designer...reports on engineering and tribology always interest me.

Millers have been designing and manufacturing lubricants for a heck of a long time and their products are of a very high standard. Their engine oil range includes all applications from Classic cars to special mineral oils for Drag Racing Engines for Top Methanol Dragsters. Their range also covers a massive range of automotive and industrial products.

I change my oil every 5,000 to 6,000 miles and have been using Millers 10W60 for a long time. It is superb stuff. My engine has covered over 153,000 miles, is hammered every day: I get 5bar oil pressure at cold idle, 2bar when hot at idle and the needle sits at 5bar when hot and driving. I used to use Synta Gold until I 'saw the light'. It is not suited to our engines at all and I was having some serious temperature and pressure issues using it.

I was so impressed with Millers products that I approached them to become an agent selling their products. They are extremely helpful and have professional on hand to prescribe specific lubricant for all applications.

Millers is prob as good as castrol but you have to becareful of yanky oil as they tend to suit low reving big cubic inch motors and not high reving turbos and cam chains

My experience is castrol is great in high output race engine inc turbos, we have never had an oil issue in many years of racing.

Morris's in shrewsbury do some very good fully synth' and comp oils in 5litre cans and good prices, it comes down to what you know or can find!!

My advice is what ever oil you use change it every 3000 max in a tuned motor, filter (from Audi £4) every other change, oils cheap (£40) but a blown engine £££££ the cheaper the oil or the bigger heat range change it more often. (I have never seen any varnishing inside my engines, just clean metal)

I will have a look for my notes and folders on oil at college and if any thing looks of interest i will pass on, I have had long disscusions with Morris's, mobil, etc they all have interesting spec's and ideas but all say their oil is best!!

[PeteRR]

Millers - Yanky???!!!!! I think not!

[Lee]

Millers is a good old British firm. Their only forray (I believe) into specialist big block engine lube is the Nitro drag racing mineral oil. Their motorsport range is designed for high performance small turbo charged engines. I agree with the frequent oil changes. I do drop my interval down to 3-4k when I have bene doing trackdays or driving especially hard (tuned K24 so not running massive power). But mostly I stick to around 5k.

As for which oil is best the only way to separate marketing rubbish from fact is through test data. Thats how it is done in the space industry (one drop of oil in a bearing is designed to last of the order 10,000,000,000 revolutions without replenishing!!). But more than just tribological performance at room temperature needs to be considered...operating conditions need detailed consideration too.

Someone mentioned using Magnatec. I would only recomend this if 'Driving Miss Daisy' to church daily in their S2. I wouldn't let Magnatec anywhere near my turbo when its glowing red during a thrash. It was fine in my Golf 1.3 many years ago but not sure I would use it in anything much more highly stressed than that.

All of this talk of engine oils must come with a word of warning. Do not change to full synthetic oil on an older engine if it has been run predominantly on mineral or semi synthetic oil for most of its life. Your engine will leak like a sieve. I willl explain if needed. There are additives available that reduce the risks of this leaking occuring but I don't have the info to hand at the moment.

[audiman]

I agree Lee, my engine must have had a full time diet of semi-pathetic oil, when i started to use a FS oil, it just started to leak and burn more. Now, after the rebuild its fine. I ran it in on a mineral oil(non-synthetic) and after about 1000 miles i changed over to fully synthetic. Becasue of the high state of tune the car is in, it gets its oil changed every 3k, and straight away after a track day no matter what mileage its done.

You can NEVER change the oil often enough (within reason). The maximum length of time that most oil 'lasts' is about 5k miles.

Many new VW/Audi cars have oil change intervals upto 30k miles now!!!! ****** that

[4WheelDrifter]

I keep having to telling my girlfriend the importance of oil changes. She moans when the service warning comes on after 6k miles. The A3 is impossible to drive without using any boost, thanks to it’s tiny turbo. Not very good when the engine’s cold. I’m pretty religious about warming up. I always have been.

[adwo]

Guys,

Please bear in mind that the formula for Castrol RS was changed some 2 years ago. You really want the Castrol *TWS* 10W-60 which is a development of the old RS formula.

The TWS is the only oil to be used in the BMW ///M engines. I use it in both the E30 M3 and the RS2 to full satisfaction.

Don't know if the above applies to good old Britain... but on the mainland this is the case...

Regards,

Adwo

[newsh]

Mine hit a record 3.8 bar at idle (after a leisurlely 45 min drive) the other day should I be worried about this? Seems to stay about 3 bar at idle all the time now it's getting cooler outside temps.

I see a constant 5 bar above 1500 rpm (maybe 1800rpm if it's very warm).

Is your thermostat stuck open? What does the water temp rise to?

[Mikes2]

Er yes it does, check your manual and look at the oil chart!

Re read my original post. It does not meet the VAG spec. The only specs which it does meet are SAE 10W-60 ACEA A3/B3/B4 API SL/CF

GTX 10W40 meets the following:
SAE 10W-40 ACEA A3/B3 API SL/CF
MB 229.1
VW 505.00

go to the following site:

http://www.castrol.com/castrol/subsection.do?categoryId=82915271&contentId=6031207

select lubricant selector. Fill in the details until you select Audi S2. You will not get Castrol 10W60RS.

below is a reply received on audifans.net regarding Castrol 10W60 RS

Personally I would stay away from 10w-60, the grade is just too thick for your car. 10w-60 when hot is as thick as some gear oils, imagine how much extra work your engine is going to have to do to pump it around.

The 10w-60 was only recomended for one M5 engine the S62 which has now changed its oil recomendation toa 0w-30. It looks like there was some kind of design issue on the early BMW S62 engine which is a V8.

The Castrol 10w-60 is also not what you might think, it says it is a fully synthetic yet it is not, it is a hydrocracked mineral oil so uses petrolium base stocks, a true synthetic is when there is no petrolium base stock and is made from PAO or Ester/PAo base stocks.

The 10w-60 route is a belief that thicker is better and this is not true even when using a petroleum oil. Although it is true that heavier viscosity oils (which are generally thought of as being thicker) will hold up better under heavy loads and high temperatures, this doesn't necessarily make them a better choice for all applications.
On many newer vehicles only 0w-40, 5w40 or 10w40 engine oils are recommended by the manufacturer. If you choose to use a higher viscosity oil than what is recommended, at the very least you are likely to reduce performance of the engine. Fuel economy will likely go down and engine performance will drop.
In the winter months it is highly recommended that you not use a heavier grade oil than what is recommended by the manufacturer. In cold start conditions you could very well be causing more engine wear than when using a lighter viscosity oil. In the summer months, going to a heavier grade is less of an issue, but there are still some things to be aware of.

Moving one grade up from the recommended viscosity is not likely to cause any problems (say from a 10w40 to a 10w50 oil). The differences in pumping and flow resitance will be slight. Although, efficiency of the engine will decrease, the oil will likely still flow adequately through the engine to maintain proper protection. However, it will not likely protect any better than the lighter weight oil recommended by the manufacturer.
Moving two grades up from the recommended viscosity (say 10w40 to 10w-60) is a little more extreme and could cause long term engine damage if not short term. Although the oil will still probably flow ok through the engine, it is a heavier visocosity oil. As such it will be more difficult to pump the oil through the engine. More friction will be present than with a lighter viscosity oil. More friction will be present than with a lighter viscosity oil. More friction means more heat. In other words, by going to a thicker oil in the summer months, you may actually be causing more heat build-up within the engine. You'll still be providing adequate protection from metal to metal contact in the engine by going with a high viscosity, but the higher viscosity will raise engine temperatures.
In the short run, this is no big deal. However, over the long term, when engine components are run at higher temperatures, they WILL wear out more quickly. As such, if you intend on keeping the vehicle for awhile, keep this in mind if you're considering using a heavier weight oil than the manufacturer recommends.
The best advice is to is to stay away from viscosity grades that are not mentioned in your owner's manual.

You will also find the 10w-60 does not have a VW recognition and on that reason alone I would steer clear of it. I belive you are looking for an oil that meets the VW505.00 code, your hand book will confirm this.

[karlblues2]

Re read my original post. It does not meet the VAG spec. The only specs which it does meet are SAE 10W-60 ACEA A3/B3/B4 API SL/CF

GTX 10W40 meets the following:
SAE 10W-40 ACEA A3/B3 API SL/CF
MB 229.1
VW 505.00

go to the following site:

http://www.castrol.com/castrol/subsection.do?categoryId=82915271&contentId=6031207

select lubricant selector. Fill in the details until you select Audi S2. You will not get Castrol 10W60RS.

below is a reply received on audifans.net regarding Castrol 10W60 RS

The Audifans.net comments make me raise the issue again of the claims of 0W20 Fuchs GT1 Titan oils being too thin for the S2. The article you extracted mentions only going to heavieer grade oil, not lighter. Also Fuchs Titan GT1 0W20 is claimed to be a fully synthetic oil. Does this make a difference Since my thread was answered (and recommended to go to Castrol RS / oer Mobil 1), I removed the GT1 and replaced it with Mobil 1 5W50 last week. I live in Canberra, in Oz and about to go into 35 - 40 degrees C temperatures. Does this climate impact on the oil viscosity choice I always change my oil at least every 5000km regardless, so any specific help for me would be great

[Dr H]

Is your thermostat stuck open? What does the water temp rise to?

Erm, not as far as I know. Water temp rises to a couple of notches over 90 really quickly in traffic and then the fan kicks in. When driving along at a constant 70-80mph it sits a couple of notches under 90 I think.

[Jamo]

The 10w-60 was only recomended for one M5 engine the S62 which has now changed its oil recomendation toa 0w-30. It looks like there was some kind of design issue on the early BMW S62 engine which is a V8.

Edited:

This looks like an article lifted from a BMW site and an VAG part just tagged on the end.

I'm going with Mihnea. Greg, Lee etc etc advice and sticking with 10W60 especially as the car is not stock.

I've used 10W40 before and it looks like black soup after 2k and cant give the turbo charger much protection.

The other thing to take into consideration is that technology has moved on since the S2 was launched.

[Jay]

The Audifans.net comments make me raise the issue again of the claims of 0W20 Fuchs GT1 Titan oils being too thin for the S2. The article you extracted mentions only going to heavieer grade oil, not lighter. Also Fuchs Titan GT1 0W20 is claimed to be a fully synthetic oil. Does this make a difference Since my thread was answered (and recommended to go to Castrol RS / oer Mobil 1), I removed the GT1 and replaced it with Mobil 1 5W50 last week. I live in Canberra, in Oz and about to go into 35 - 40 degrees C temperatures. Does this climate impact on the oil viscosity choice I always change my oil at least every 5000km regardless, so any specific help for me would be great

Air temp does impacted the oil grade you should chose, as you are in a warmer climate 0w oil is not so important as the oil will be warmer in a cold engine (air temp)

Oils like a 0w20 grade will give very good horse power and fuel econ.

With all these oils its there ability to stand temps in the region of 700 *C in the turbo and shearing with gears and chains will destory the chemical chains and degrade the oil plus with high tuned turbos there can be a lot of blow by and fuel wash-

basicly pick your oil and change it as offen as you can afford, just dont use chip pan oil...

Jay

P.s keep this thread going, its good to see others views

[jpaaso]

http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/upload/showthread.php?t=25932

http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/upload/showthread.php?t=25177

http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/upload/showthread.php?t=25346

- JjP