3B Timing Chain question

[GurjinderSembhi]

Long time reader - first time poster (except for the FB page).

So in the process of restoring my 3B engine after it suddenly cut out (distributor head was full of oil and the worm gear looked chewed out) - I decided to do a full service update as it looked like many things hadn't been touched in about 8 years time (i've got about 3 inches of documentation for the car)

After having changed pretty much everything else (with some nice upgrades from ultra performance and james dorey) we finally realised that the timing chain was really loose (as in a fingers push loose) and I ordered a new one - 6 weeks later (ordered just before christmas from autodoc) finally got the chain and then another 2 weeks later waiting for the rain to stop, finally got the time to put the chain in.

When the engine cut out I set the engine to the TDC marks on both the top cam wheel against the rocker cover and the flywheel mark to change the timing belt but the timing chain marks are out as you can tell from the pictures (didn't realise at the time)

After a lot of fiddling around with the new chain, and with a little help from a mechanic guru elder in the family, I got the chains to set ALMOST line up (as per the second picture) - they are currently half a mark out by my reckoning. When aligned like, this the dot on the cam wheel aligns with the rocker cover and the flywheel timing mark. However to get the dots to align the flywheel mark goes out enough not to be seen anymore (and it looks like the rocker cover mark is still aligned).

Is it ok to run the engine like this? Or is there a another way to get all three marks to line up?

Thanks

[Tractor Dave]

It doesn't look right. Try using a long screw driver on cylinder 1 to set TDC. Remove all the spark plugs to reduce compression when setting the cams as they have a habit of finding their own position. It took me a few goes to get it right. I've only done ABY but think it's the same.

[Tractor Dave]

Not a very good pic but you can just see the marks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[varia]

https://www.motorgeek.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=51986

few good pictures here, and on qw

[GurjinderSembhi]

Thank you both - will try and have a go again on the weekend, however the problem seems that when I line up the teeth in the chain and then set the cams down on tappets it goes half a tooth out.

Will try and set TDC using the spark plug hole (again) to see if it improves the situation.

[steve briance]

Hi. Ive been looking at your photo of your timing marks. They seem level and in the same place in relation to the top of the head. As you know, they should be lined up with the edge of the head passing through the centre line of circle... Are you able to take a new photo from different angle much lower down like Tractor Dave's pic?

I cant help but wonder if looking low down more along the cam rather than looking down might show a difference more like what it should be?

[Tractor Dave]

Hi. Ive been looking at your photo of your timing marks. They seem level and in the same place in relation to the top of the head. As you know, they should be lined up with the edge of the head passing through the centre line of circle... Are you able to take a new photo from different angle much lower down like Tractor Dave's pic?

I cant help but wonder if looking low down more along the cam rather than looking down might show a difference more like what it should be?

Yes, good plan. A mirror works if the engine is in the car

[GurjinderSembhi]

Here is another picture I took - here the two dots are aligned but the timing mark in the flywheel bell house is not lined up when they are in this position.

The cam gear mark is still lined up against the rocker cover as it only took a few taps to get the cams lined up.

[steve briance]

Are you sure they are aligned? The one on the left is barely visible.

Sounds like you may need to start again by taking your timing belt off cam pulley setting your number 1 piston to tdc either by the line on flywheel or using long screw driver down sparkplug hole. The screw driver method gets you 'about there' but the flywheel mark is better.

Once the tdc is set, release cams again as I'm afraid there is no way of getting the cam marks facing each other without being able to move them independantly of each other. The cam on left looks one tooth out but once tdc is set it could be more or less!

Here is the best pic i could take of mine. Hope it helps give you an idea of what you need.

[GurjinderSembhi]

Appreciate the feedback - i'm gonna have another go at it again at the weekend!

[Error404]

This is what you’re aiming for.
HTH
Alex
24352A03-BB30-4491-994A-FF6DA91007CB.jpeg

[GurjinderSembhi]

(had to edit the post as I found new info)

So had a go at it again this morning, and after 3 times couldn't get these to line up other than the half tooth out as per my pictures in the first post - nor can I get the lobes to line up properly as they should (broke the pulley key in the process :S)

However then I notice that neither the inlet or exhaust cam has part numbers for a 3B engine

The exhaust has the markings of what looks like "054 102 072 B"
The intake one has 034AM markings on it

Before I take them out and measure lifters and lobes, is there an easier way to identify which engine they are from?

Does this effect the timing marks like they do for an RS2?

Thanks,

G.

[s0_big]

RS2 camshafts or not, you should get the 0-0 to line up. Take the cams out on the table allign them with chain so the 0-0 line up. Put them back, job done. The cam gear and bottom end markings is not that accurate. Measure your own TDC on cyl no 1 and mark on the front pulley, dont look to much on the cam gear/cam-cover markings, just allign the camshafts with the 0--0 right. Then it should be good.

[newsh]

Maybe the flywheel mark was going out of the window because the pulley key was in the process of breaking.
When you fit the new one, fit a steel bottom pulley as well.

[GurjinderSembhi]

Finally got it sorted!

Turns out that it was indeed the woodruff key which was on its way out and was giving play on the cam. Got the new cam gear on, and then decided to re-seat the cams and then everything lined up - cam cover, cam points, flywheel mark - finally got it up and running today (turns out starter had seized as well - was fun trying to get that out :S)

Thank you everyone for your suggestions.