RS2 GT3071R dyno results

[Jamo]

The Exhaust Manifold of the RS2 OEM will never bounce the power higher than 400hp. You can install the biggest turbo with the biggest downpipe. The problem on your car is the Exhaust Manifold.

That's a load of rubbish I've been on various dyno days including days I've held myself and have seen over 10-20 cars hitting over 400 bhp with the RS2 manifold.

It's not that the RS2 manifold will not hit 450 bhp the problem is it's not reliable at those bhp levels long term.

I can show you a dyno plot from Ross's car on a 3071 .63 with an RS2 manifold hitting 428 bhp with small injectors.

[monstereddie]

1) we never meausred B7 RS4s here. I was talking about the B5 2.7LTT. But i measured 2 brand new s4 4.2V8 measurement 1 was 288hp and on the second brand new car we had 291hp. It is very funny that tuner "Sportec" from switzerland told me on phone, that you need approx. 12000€ to reach the "Audi Power". I believe, that this is the same with the RS4s B7 and the actual R8s.

2. As you see, you did the mapping with Erdal on the road and erdal really does his job always perfect you reached nearly 400hp. this is the told limit of the RS2 OEM Exhaust Manifold.

3. Also the tubular Exhaust Manifold needs to have specific lengths and diameters. If this is done correct (like the PK ones) i believe that you can crack the 420-450 easily. Also the Wagner EM proofed that they can make more than 400!

[monstereddie]

That's a load of rubbish I've been on various dyno days including days I've held myself and have seen over 10-20 cars hitting over 400 bhp with the RS2 manifold.

It's not that the RS2 manifold will not hit 450 bhp the problem is it's not reliable at those bhp levels long term.

I can show you a dyno plot from Ross's car on a 3071 .63 with an RS2 manifold hitting 428 bhp with small injectors.

Hi Jamo:

i believe you. Fact is - and this is what you cant complain - that the GT3071.63 is able to much more. Also i don´t know what else is in the car. I dont know nothing about the Exhaust Temp and if the car is running for long time and full fire on a highway. If i talk about 400hp i mean, that the user can run the car 1h on the left lane on the highway ((in germany of course)).

A quartermile car that lasts and is necessary for seconds is something completely different than a daily driver. I have a person here in germany with a GT3071.63 with tubular exhaust manifold running 488hp. The car is amazing and was pretty cheap to build. He bought the engine with the correct "ingrediences"

[prosty]

Rs2 manifold is good for atleast 500 hp no worries

[a4kquattro]

I've tuned an AAN Coupe with RS2 EM and 3071 to 430 *wheel* hp on race gas so it *is* possible to get a lot of horsepower out of the RS2 EM however he did end up having an issue one day at the drag strip I suspect due to climbing egts, slightly melted the ring lands on #2 and #4 which are the worst flowing ports on the RS2 EM. Just saying, be careful how much you push a 3071 on an RS2 EM.

[EspenW]

No i said it right. In Germany the DIN means, that the car will be delivered with the Power measured on the wheel! If you buy a car the law tells you, that the car reaches 315hp. We dont talk about whp, we talk about PNorm which will be measured for example in Böblingen at TÜV Automotive. .

Hmmm..are you saying that German auto makers quote their power output as measured at the wheels, and not power at the flywheel, as measured on a proper engine dyno? Weird how the rest of the world quote power at the crank, then.
In other words, a stock ABY S2 should pull 230ps at the wheels, a stock RS2 should pull 315ps, B7 RS4 should pull 422ps at the wheels, etc. So a 1.8T equipped A4 will deliver 163hp to the wheels regardless of it being FWD with a manual or quattro with Tiptronic, that would indicate a different state of tune on the same engine code, depending on drivetrain, gearbox, etc
Stock B7 RS4's pull 290-310ps at the wheels, as measured on a Mustang. Dynojet numbers will be higher, MAHA lower. Dyno numbers will vary wildly with type of dyno, and guesstimates to produce a crank number just confuse the issue further.

[monstereddie]

Rs2 manifold is good for atleast 500 hp no worries

You don´t know what you are talking about. I work on the 5 cylinders since 1997 and made this engines to my main topic in my life. I love the cars, the engines and the history. Till today i opened more than 150 ADU Engines, more than 300 5 Cylinders and i really have pictures and documentation of EVERY customer. I worked with cheap *** ****ed up turbos up to expensive KKK Custom Turbochargers that cost more than 3000€ today. You have to apologize that i say it clear, but you don´t know what you are talking about....

Here in Germany there is a hand full of persons that are specifically working JUST with the 5 cylinders and nothing else. There are Names like Tom, Peter, Erdal, Eduard..... That invested all their money, time and passion in technique and skills. All this acknowledgement made us have documentary of hundreds of pages full of results we made on dynos, on the street. I could write you minimum 10 pages full with specifications of Intercooler I - ME - MYSELF did on ADU engines. Beginning with FIAT, IVECO, MERCEDES, SCANIA..... Intercoolers and their results, temperatures and their efficiency. The same with Turbochargers, Intake Manifolds, Exhaust Manifolds, Valves, Cams, Pistons.......................................

So please think before you write. AND if you are able to proof 500hp through a OEM Audi RS2 Exhaust Manifold, then please do it and don´t just SAY it.

This seems to be a very interesting discussion so far. Please do not destroy it through unprofessional statements. And if, then with proof.

[Billman]

Does Tom has a Dyno of his engine with the Mihnea tune with the KKK Turbo?

[monstereddie]

I dont know what he has. But i know, that his concentration went from the 5 Cylinder to the 6 Cylinder 2.7TT (RS4).

[Jamo]

You don´t know what you are talking about. I work on the 5 cylinders since 1997 and made this engines to my main topic in my life. I love the cars, the engines and the history. Till today i opened more than 150 ADU Engines, more than 300 5 Cylinders and i really have pictures and documentation of EVERY customer. I worked with cheap *** ****ed up turbos up to expensive KKK Custom Turbochargers that cost more than 3000€ today. You have to apologize that i say it clear, but you don´t know what you are talking about....

Here in Germany there is a hand full of persons that are specifically working JUST with the 5 cylinders and nothing else. There are Names like Tom, Peter, Erdal, Eduard..... That invested all their money, time and passion in technique and skills. All this acknowledgement made us have documentary of hundreds of pages full of results we made on dynos, on the street. I could write you minimum 10 pages full with specifications of Intercooler I - ME - MYSELF did on ADU engines. Beginning with FIAT, IVECO, MERCEDES, SCANIA..... Intercoolers and their results, temperatures and their efficiency. The same with Turbochargers, Intake Manifolds, Exhaust Manifolds, Valves, Cams, Pistons.......................................

So please think before you write. AND if you are able to proof 500hp through a OEM Audi RS2 Exhaust Manifold, then please do it and don´t just SAY it.

This seems to be a very interesting discussion so far. Please do not destroy it through unprofessional statements. And if, then with proof.

Prosty has built a 500 bhp plus S2 which was well loved on this forum and also has provided many custom parts.

He hasn't attacked you or question your ability to build engines has he....

[monstereddie]

I was reading very carefully the whole post of his car yesterday. I took the time to see that he has talent and skills for all of this. I respect him and his project and would never attack him. If this is the case, that he feels attacked, i want to apologize. It wasn´t my intension. BUT i also saw, that he is NOT using an OEM RS2 EM - WHY? It is better to change acknowledgement than to attack each other.

Again, i dont wanted to attack him, i wanted to clear up, that it is impossible to reach REAL 500hp out of the RS2 EM - with any turbocharger. Any person you ask in Germany concerning this part will tell you the same for sure!

[A80Avant]

I dont think, that Erdal, me or anyone can really deliver a correct Mapping through EMail or Post. You should simulate the car and do the mapping on the road

I went to germany and we did map the car on the road for 5 hours+ with erdal.The rest was only made from him by my demand as i thought i could go for more power.The remap he sent me was done based on the info he had of my car after 5 hours of testing!!

Also here in greece the most out of the 5cyl engined have gone with the RS2 manifold is that figure.around 400hp(flywheel hp NOT wheel hp.)400hp flywheel means around 330-350whp depending on the dyno(rototest/mustang etc).

At some point i will probably try the EVO manifold because i dont want to go into having large changes in the car.So far having taken my precautions with the EM as far as the EGTs are concerned the car goes fine,so im happy.A 76mm catback, 100cell cat(or cats) and EVO EM would be nice to have in the future,and i have said to myself that im going to keep everything running as long as everything lasts!Also i have thoughts of giving the EVO manifold a bit of treatment,such as internal grinding of the roughness and cryogenic treatment as well(when i buy it that is..)

As you see,tom made 390hp as he states with 1.8bar then dropping to 1.65 with almost the same spec as my car.So my car must be aroung that figure.What i stated is that it cannot give 334 on a rototest dyno at the hubs @1.5bar and then 358hp @flywheel @maha on 1.8bar !!!! It is ridiculus!

As for how dynos work in germany,you lost me.All i know is what most people know,and that is flywheel and wheel hp.MAHA measures flywheel accuratelly(or so im told) and rototest measures hubs which is closer to the wheels and that is something that gives more accuracy on what the car does on the road.I would like to go on a rolling road here in the UK sometime,and also meet MRC people,but it is too early! and NO MONEY!!

[A80Avant]

@monstereddie

the car jamo says it made 428 is like mine with the following differences:

1) 7A exhaust cam
2) OEM pistons
3)OEM exhaust system
4)OEM exhaust manifold
5)RS2 intercooler
6)S2 intake manifold
7)Remap by mihnea reaching 1.9-2bar and good EGTs as Mihnea stated

see now why im thinking that i should have around 400hp @flywheel (or 350@ wheels at least) in order to make this power?It is impossible to have 358hp flywheel as maha suggests.

[EspenW]

As you see,tom made 390hp as he states with 1.8bar then dropping to 1.65 with almost the same spec as my car.So my car must be aroung that figure.What i stated is that it cannot give 334 on a rototest dyno at the hubs @1.5bar and then 358hp @flywheel @maha on 1.8bar !!!! It is ridiculus!

As for how dynos work in germany,you lost me.All i know is what most people know,and that is flywheel and wheel hp.MAHA measures flywheel accuratelly(or so im told) and rototest measures hubs which is closer to the wheels and that is something that gives more accuracy on what the car does on the road.I would like to go on a rolling road here in the UK sometime,and also meet MRC people,but it is too early! and NO MONEY!!

That MAHA must have been out of calibration, or the operator did a mistake.
334 on the Rototest indicates 400+ at the crank. B7 RS4's pull 330's on the Rototest.

[Jamo]

@monstereddie

the car jamo says it made 428 is like mine with the following differences:

1) 7A exhaust cam
2) OEM pistons
3)OEM exhaust system
4)OEM exhaust manifold
5)RS2 intercooler
6)S2 intake manifold
7)Remap by mihnea reaching 1.9-2bar and good EGTs as Mihnea stated

see now why im thinking that i should have around 400hp @flywheel (or 350@ wheels at least) in order to make this power?It is impossible to have 358hp flywheel as maha suggests.

Papvas the pistons weren't OEM they were Mahle oversized at 81.50 mm IIRC
The EM was an RS2 EM
The exhaust was after market 3" I think