HELP - URS4 Not Starting...no spark...immobilzer??

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  • lcsmith
    S2Forum Addict
    • Jul 2007
    • 477
    • Country: Scotland

    #31
    I will post the ECU number when I get it back from the "specialists" as being the pillock I am I didn't take a note of it before I sent it away

    I am going to have a closer look at the wires related to this immob to see if there are any that look suspect and also to take a note of where they go and what colour they are.........but my electrics skills are limited to say the least so I fear this may have to be sorted by a garage............which means less beer tokens ...
    ....but on the plus side I can get my car back on the road fingers crossed..
    Audi A4 (B7) 2.0 Tdi (140PS)
    Audi 80 (Typ 89) Quattro 16v
    2 x Audi URS4 2.2 20v Turbo
    Audi 100 (C3) Quattro 2.2 10v Turbo
    Audi 100 (C3) 2.2 10v Turbo (Auto)
    Audi 200 (C3) 2.1 10v Turbo - Scrapped
    2 x Audi 80 (Typ 89) Quattro 1.8 8v - Scrapped

    Comment

    • twoqu
      S2Forum Possessed
      • Sep 2003
      • 3103

      #32
      I guess the trouble might be if they have snipped original wires to connect the immo unit in series. Obviously then you might be left with some unconnected wires which will put you back in the same position!
      To be fair ecu's seem to be pretty robust considering the abuse tey have to put up with in an automotive application!

      Comment

      • lcsmith
        S2Forum Addict
        • Jul 2007
        • 477
        • Country: Scotland

        #33
        Are immobs not always wired in series? That way you can't just snip wires and drive off with the car, if you want to get rid you have to join up all the original wires which isn't a 5 minutes job at the side of road......bad news for would-be car thieves...

        Robust or not I don't think any of it will be in a very good state after I throw it all over the cliff......which is what it deserves, but I do feel I'm getting somewhere now....hopefully
        Audi A4 (B7) 2.0 Tdi (140PS)
        Audi 80 (Typ 89) Quattro 16v
        2 x Audi URS4 2.2 20v Turbo
        Audi 100 (C3) Quattro 2.2 10v Turbo
        Audi 100 (C3) 2.2 10v Turbo (Auto)
        Audi 200 (C3) 2.1 10v Turbo - Scrapped
        2 x Audi 80 (Typ 89) Quattro 1.8 8v - Scrapped

        Comment

        • lcsmith
          S2Forum Addict
          • Jul 2007
          • 477
          • Country: Scotland

          #34
          Just recieved my ECU back from Blue Streak.

          The part numbers off my ECU are;
          Bosch No - 0 261 200 465
          Audi No - 4A0 907 551 AA


          You guys were saying that it was impossible for the immobiliser to immobilise the ECU, so I'm beginning to wonder whether the ECU is knackered or not....? The technician I spoke to didn't seem to be that positively sure with an of his answers to my questions....
          Audi A4 (B7) 2.0 Tdi (140PS)
          Audi 80 (Typ 89) Quattro 16v
          2 x Audi URS4 2.2 20v Turbo
          Audi 100 (C3) Quattro 2.2 10v Turbo
          Audi 100 (C3) 2.2 10v Turbo (Auto)
          Audi 200 (C3) 2.1 10v Turbo - Scrapped
          2 x Audi 80 (Typ 89) Quattro 1.8 8v - Scrapped

          Comment

          • twoqu
            S2Forum Possessed
            • Sep 2003
            • 3103

            #35
            Well thats an early one without immo. Without trying to confuse you further I was just trying to point out that the early ecu is dumb. If you put the power supply, both 12V battery and ign and its earthed then it should work assuming all the sensors are functioning. Of course its possible for the aftermarket immo to immo the ecu but it does not stay immoed after removal from the vehicle. The later ecu which is a 551C is immo equiped. Hard to explain but the factory system uses a transponder in the key, a reader coil in the ign barrel, a seperate immo box of tricks and lastly a compatible ecu. I am not 100% sure but I think I read somewhere that the immo unit sends a pulsed signal into the ecu.
            It would be possible to switch your ecu into any other S4/S6 and it should still work. You cannot swap an immo ecu 551C/E into an unimmo vehicle as the car will start briefly then cut out.
            So back to the non standard immo as the potential problem as clearly it can only immo the car by interupting a vital signal. Just be methodical and trace the wires!

            Comment

            • lcsmith
              S2Forum Addict
              • Jul 2007
              • 477
              • Country: Scotland

              #36
              Well by going on what you've said the ECU should have worked when tested by Blue Streak, and couldn't have possibly been immobilised, therefore having failed it must be knackered......am I missing something?

              Originally posted by twoqu
              Well thats an early one without immo. Without trying to confuse you further I was just trying to point out that the early ecu is dumb. If you put the power supply, both 12V battery and ign and its earthed then it should work assuming all the sensors are functioning. Of course its possible for the aftermarket immo to immo the ecu but it does not stay immoed after removal from the vehicle.
              Audi A4 (B7) 2.0 Tdi (140PS)
              Audi 80 (Typ 89) Quattro 16v
              2 x Audi URS4 2.2 20v Turbo
              Audi 100 (C3) Quattro 2.2 10v Turbo
              Audi 100 (C3) 2.2 10v Turbo (Auto)
              Audi 200 (C3) 2.1 10v Turbo - Scrapped
              2 x Audi 80 (Typ 89) Quattro 1.8 8v - Scrapped

              Comment

              • twoqu
                S2Forum Possessed
                • Sep 2003
                • 3103

                #37
                Correct! If you are confident of their abilities!
                So there is always the possibility that the ecu has a intermitant fault but I can't see how the ecu can be immobolized. I guess it might be possible on the later ones as there must be some additional circuitary in addition to the known software. Perhaps Paul N might have noticed something!
                Can you not swop your ecu into your mates for a weekend? If it works then we are back to the immo. As long as he keeps his original with him so he is not caught out. It might assist your diagnosis. Starts to get expensive changing stuff for nothing!

                Comment

                • lcsmith
                  S2Forum Addict
                  • Jul 2007
                  • 477
                  • Country: Scotland

                  #38
                  His car is an L reg Audi URS4, without factory immob so it will have the same ECU. I had thought about swapping his one over, but his car has a really horrible scorpion immob / alarm and I didn't want to turn his car into a non-runner like mine, and as well as the fact I didn't know that the ECU could be swapped without re-coding, etc.

                  Would swapping the ECU across affect his Immob / alarm?....I suppose it depends how its wired in......?
                  Is it no problem to do this, swapping ECU's back and forth...generally?


                  I have been V-lucky with tips / tests from this forum to rule things out rather than buying new, I've only actually renewed the cam position sensor which was actually broken anyway, but your right its bad enough having to pay for new bits for these Audi's when you need the bits, but it would be really painfull having to do it when its not needed!!
                  Audi A4 (B7) 2.0 Tdi (140PS)
                  Audi 80 (Typ 89) Quattro 16v
                  2 x Audi URS4 2.2 20v Turbo
                  Audi 100 (C3) Quattro 2.2 10v Turbo
                  Audi 100 (C3) 2.2 10v Turbo (Auto)
                  Audi 200 (C3) 2.1 10v Turbo - Scrapped
                  2 x Audi 80 (Typ 89) Quattro 1.8 8v - Scrapped

                  Comment

                  • twoqu
                    S2Forum Possessed
                    • Sep 2003
                    • 3103

                    #39
                    Well if nothing else its a good test of friendship!
                    Seriously though, As we have established that aftermarket immos are external to the ecu there shouldn't be any problems. If the vehicle were factory immo then I think you would need to re sync them to the immo with vag com.
                    If you swop your suspect one into his then its unlikely to do any damage whereas if you put his undamaged one into yours and it gets fukked up then red faces all round.
                    The ecu will take a while to adapt but I can't see any other problems. If it works fine then thats another thing eliminated.

                    Comment

                    • S2central.net
                      Retired OG Mod
                      • Jul 2003
                      • 16590
                      • Country: Northern Ireland

                      #40
                      Twoqu is right - your ECU is NON immo... Swap it any other ABY or AAN to see what gives.

                      Your man from BlueStreak is a **** and a liar.

                      If the ECU works in another car then it MUST be your aftermarket alarm/immo... Tell me how that is wired privately.
                      Paul Nugent
                      Webmaster http://S2central.net
                      Administrator http://S2forum.com

                      1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
                      2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
                      2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

                      Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

                      There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't

                      Comment

                      • lcsmith
                        S2Forum Addict
                        • Jul 2007
                        • 477
                        • Country: Scotland

                        #41
                        Ok update guys...........last night I got a shot of my pals S4 to swap the last suspect bits over.
                        First I swapped over his Power Output Stages into my car no difference, then
                        I put my ECU into his car and it ran fine........so basically it looks like it must be the IMMOB......or I suppose a broken wire.....?

                        Summary of things Checked and Ruled Out;
                        All Fuses / Relays,
                        ECU,
                        POS's,
                        Earths,
                        Coil Packs,
                        Spark Plugs,
                        Both G4 and G28 sensors,
                        G40 sensor,
                        Engine Timing,
                        I have fuel.

                        I'm going to book it in to the Electrical Engineer to get the IMMOB and all related sh*te removed..........I'm really bad with electrics

                        So one step closer, anyway cheers for now!
                        Audi A4 (B7) 2.0 Tdi (140PS)
                        Audi 80 (Typ 89) Quattro 16v
                        2 x Audi URS4 2.2 20v Turbo
                        Audi 100 (C3) Quattro 2.2 10v Turbo
                        Audi 100 (C3) 2.2 10v Turbo (Auto)
                        Audi 200 (C3) 2.1 10v Turbo - Scrapped
                        2 x Audi 80 (Typ 89) Quattro 1.8 8v - Scrapped

                        Comment

                        • lcsmith
                          S2Forum Addict
                          • Jul 2007
                          • 477
                          • Country: Scotland

                          #42
                          Just one thing that crossed my mind is..........where is the fuel pump relay?..........the reason I ask is that I was thinking that maybe the fuel pump relay also had something to do with the spark..........you know like maybe half the relay works the fuel half works the spark........? just a thought.......

                          Also I've gone and closed the bonnet without hooking up the cable to the cross-member, so now the bonnet stuck shut........can you open it through the grill with a hook?.......or maybe from underneath in a pit?.........this happened to any of you?
                          Audi A4 (B7) 2.0 Tdi (140PS)
                          Audi 80 (Typ 89) Quattro 16v
                          2 x Audi URS4 2.2 20v Turbo
                          Audi 100 (C3) Quattro 2.2 10v Turbo
                          Audi 100 (C3) 2.2 10v Turbo (Auto)
                          Audi 200 (C3) 2.1 10v Turbo - Scrapped
                          2 x Audi 80 (Typ 89) Quattro 1.8 8v - Scrapped

                          Comment

                          • quattro20v
                            S2Forum Enthusiast
                            • Jul 2007
                            • 173
                            • Country: Finland

                            #43
                            I think it's this one under the steering wheel.


                            And yes that happened to me too, i opened the bonnet underneath with some 80cm pipe.
                            Attached Files
                            Now quattro less, my urs4 stolen 13.8

                            Comment

                            • S2central.net
                              Retired OG Mod
                              • Jul 2003
                              • 16590
                              • Country: Northern Ireland

                              #44
                              I'd have to look up AAN schematics... The fuel pump relay is an a different location to the S2/RS2.
                              But it is only triggered by the ECU, when its happy the engine is rotating fast enough, to activate the fuel pump. Easy to test of course.

                              I hate faults like this - I could solve them in half a day MAX if I had hands on...
                              Paul Nugent
                              Webmaster http://S2central.net
                              Administrator http://S2forum.com

                              1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
                              2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
                              2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

                              Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

                              There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't

                              Comment

                              • lcsmith
                                S2Forum Addict
                                • Jul 2007
                                • 477
                                • Country: Scotland

                                #45
                                Ok the guys at the garage tell me that there is NO pulse from the plug at the injectors.....any ideas?

                                The second thing is does anyone have wiring diagrams for the URS4 or at least for the ECU?

                                Third thing, is this a motronic, KE-motronic, etc?
                                Audi A4 (B7) 2.0 Tdi (140PS)
                                Audi 80 (Typ 89) Quattro 16v
                                2 x Audi URS4 2.2 20v Turbo
                                Audi 100 (C3) Quattro 2.2 10v Turbo
                                Audi 100 (C3) 2.2 10v Turbo (Auto)
                                Audi 200 (C3) 2.1 10v Turbo - Scrapped
                                2 x Audi 80 (Typ 89) Quattro 1.8 8v - Scrapped

                                Comment

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