S6 which refuses to pull correctly

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  • HMS-S6
    S2Forum Extremist
    • Jan 2010
    • 1164
    • Home: United Kingdom Current: England

    #1

    S6 which refuses to pull correctly

    Most of you on here have seen me rattle on endlessly about my S6 which refuses to pull correctly whatever i change (and believe me, its EVERYTHING!), but today i may have made a breakthrough.
    I thought the knock sensors were retarding the timing, but after buying new (no difference) and then running the car with them both tied out the way (not a good idea i know) i finally ruled them out!

    BUT.............If i start the car THEN with it running unplug the crank position sensor (which is also new!) the car pulls spot on - the fastest its ever been

    I know the sensor is ok, but does anyone have a clue as to what it points to?

    I am told that it uses a 'memory' position from cranking in order to run.
  • prj
    S2Forum Zealot
    • Mar 2010
    • 6308
    • Country: Estonia

    #2
    Your car goes into limp mode most likely, and it does not read other sensors as well.
    You will probably get a similar effect if you just unplug the MAF for example.

    That doesn't mean the sensor is at fault.
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    • HMS-S6
      S2Forum Extremist
      • Jan 2010
      • 1164
      • Home: United Kingdom Current: England

      #3
      Originally posted by prj
      Your car goes into limp mode most likely, and it does not read other sensors as well.
      You will probably get a similar effect if you just unplug the MAF for example.

      That doesn't mean the sensor is at fault.
      No. Limp mode is completely different, it limits the boost to 0.4 bar.

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      • driftin jo
        S2Forum Fiend
        • Sep 2007
        • 2222
        • Country: United Kingdom

        #4
        That's an odd one for sure , if the sensor wasn't working it wouldn't start , weird .
        The only thing I can think of is that there is some sort of electrical interference going on when the engine is running , possibly in the wires from the sensor to the ecu . I would try running my own wires from the sensor to the ecu . I'm not an expert with electrical things but if no one else has any better ideas its probably worth a try.

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        • prj
          S2Forum Zealot
          • Mar 2010
          • 6308
          • Country: Estonia

          #5
          Originally posted by motocrossmad
          No. Limp mode is completely different, it limits the boost to 0.4 bar.
          You are wrong.
          0.4 bar limp mode means that the boost controller part is in limp mode.
          If you disconnect the MAF, your fuel part will be in limp mode, which will by no means hamper boost meaning that will boost just fine with the MAF disconnected, but fuel and ignition will be in limp mode.

          There are two limp modes in M2.3.2.
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          • HMS-S6
            S2Forum Extremist
            • Jan 2010
            • 1164
            • Home: United Kingdom Current: England

            #6
            Originally posted by prj
            You are wrong.
            0.4 bar limp mode means that the boost controller part is in limp mode.
            If you disconnect the MAF, your fuel part will be in limp mode, which will by no means hamper boost meaning that will boost just fine with the MAF disconnected, but fuel and ignition will be in limp mode.

            There are two limp modes in M2.3.2.
            I'm not wrong, with the MAF disconnected it also limits the boost - i have done this only today! As does the Camshaft sensor and knock sensors

            What do you mean by M2.3.2.??

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            • HMS-S6
              S2Forum Extremist
              • Jan 2010
              • 1164
              • Home: United Kingdom Current: England

              #7
              Originally posted by driftin jo
              That's an odd one for sure , if the sensor wasn't working it wouldn't start , weird .
              The only thing I can think of is that there is some sort of electrical interference going on when the engine is running , possibly in the wires from the sensor to the ecu . I would try running my own wires from the sensor to the ecu . I'm not an expert with electrical things but if no one else has any better ideas its probably worth a try.
              Thats the problem - i'm not electricaly minded realy either! I need to do a 'data log' to see what sensors are doing what but don't know who can do it with me.

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              • prj
                S2Forum Zealot
                • Mar 2010
                • 6308
                • Country: Estonia

                #8
                Originally posted by motocrossmad
                I'm not wrong, with the MAF disconnected it also limits the boost
                It does not... last time I checked anyway.
                I'll check again tomorrow

                P.S. This does still not change the fact that there are two limp modes on Motronic 2.3.2. Also I am quite sure fuel part will go into limp mode with that sensor disconnected and boost will be fine.
                Last edited by prj; 6 November 2010, 21:55.
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                • newsh
                  S2Forum Obsessed
                  • Aug 2003
                  • 16226
                  • Country: United Kingdom

                  #9
                  This is interesting, does the "other" limp mode result in a partial reduction in boost and flat feeling to the power?

                  S2 Coupe 3B Project


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                  • prj
                    S2Forum Zealot
                    • Mar 2010
                    • 6308
                    • Country: Estonia

                    #10
                    Yes, car feels dead from 2000-4000 rpm. And comes alive after.
                    Turbo spools slower as well due to this... but boost goes over spring pressure.
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                    • newsh
                      S2Forum Obsessed
                      • Aug 2003
                      • 16226
                      • Country: United Kingdom

                      #11
                      I've had this with my car, after a WOT run through the gears boost would be reduced but only down to about 0.7Bar as opposed to 0.4Bar and yes engine feels really dead low down.

                      S2 Coupe 3B Project


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                      • Jamo
                        Retired OG Mod
                        • Mar 2004
                        • 21750
                        • Country: United Kingdom

                        #12
                        Originally posted by motocrossmad
                        I'm not wrong, with the MAF disconnected it also limits the boost - i have done this only today! As does the Camshaft sensor and knock sensors

                        What do you mean by M2.3.2.??
                        100% agree you get violent boost cut with the MAF unplug.

                        MAF plug came away when I was doing log run up MRC hill and it was vicous

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                        • newsh
                          S2Forum Obsessed
                          • Aug 2003
                          • 16226
                          • Country: United Kingdom

                          #13
                          I think you have to start the car with the maf disconnected to run without it.

                          S2 Coupe 3B Project


                          Ur quattro restoration

                          S2 Avant

                          Boost is the new rock and roll!
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                          • HMS-S6
                            S2Forum Extremist
                            • Jan 2010
                            • 1164
                            • Home: United Kingdom Current: England

                            #14
                            Originally posted by newsh
                            I think you have to start the car with the maf disconnected to run without it.
                            Any which way, what i am feeling is different, with the crank position sensor unplugged i get 0.8 bar on stock ecu and 1.4 on my mapped one and the car pulls like a train!!

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                            • HMS-S6
                              S2Forum Extremist
                              • Jan 2010
                              • 1164
                              • Home: United Kingdom Current: England

                              #15
                              I've been told by everyone that the G40 camshaft sensor is only used for starting, but i have just read this http://forums.quattroworld.com/s4s6/msgs/22580.phtml which states that it is used fo knock reduction too!!!

                              I bought the car as a non runner from a guy who reported that it ran fine aside from that. When i bought it someone fitted an extremely cheap aftermarket Camshaft sensor (thought it was strange that it was 'on the shelf'), sugesting that the fault only started after this was fitted, is it possible that it was either not the right sensor or it was attached to the bracket in the wrong position?

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