500HP target turbo - GTX30 vs ?

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  • Billman
    S2Forum Freak
    • Nov 2004
    • 4129

    #46
    @Repo

    Where do you get 2 bar boost on forth or fifth gear with a turbo with 60/85 compressor and 70/60 turbine and what AR Exhaust housing? (Cams 7a reclocked).
    I would like to know it if you have experience.
    Go Holset or Go RS4

    Comment

    • repo
      S2Forum Maniac
      • Dec 2004
      • 893
      • Country: Finland

      #47
      which specific turbo are You referring to?

      A friend of mine took 780Nm with super40 from 2.2 liter. I think he had 2 bar around 3500rpm. But it was with 7a cams.

      I haven't used 7a for anything since I realized the gain at the top end is not worth the loss in spoolup and midrange, so I have very limited knowledge of 7a based setups.
      Everything less than 2 bar is considered to be naturally aspirated

      Comment

      • Billman
        S2Forum Freak
        • Nov 2004
        • 4129

        #48
        About my hybrid hx35/40. Have a bit big turbine housing right now but I just want to see if that's what I am seeing is ok.
        Go Holset or Go RS4

        Comment

        • URQguy
          S2Forum Addict
          • Sep 2008
          • 245
          • Country: United States

          #49
          The difference in pressure from the collector to the turbine inlet is trivial. The usefulness of turbine inlet pressure is not however. It is the best tool for figuring out if your wheels are matched appropriately. Who cares how everybody else measures it. Just do it the way the manufacture recommends, and you will be golden. I would keep an eye on that key piece of data, even if others dont know what it means.

          The problem with these small turbo shops like CT, PTE and HTA is that they are just blindly sticking compressors on Turbines and hoping for the best. They are not multibillion dollar companies with liabilities, engineers and lawyers. They are a small 30 person shop at the most, churning out test turbos for people to try at 1300 Euro. No maps on either hte compressor or turbine...

          The majority of hte people that will spend 1600 dollars on a turbo will also be on Stand Alone. If that is the case, Flat foot shifting and anti lag can be used to combat the intertia lost. Personally, I think that is a hoax. THe tiny mitsubishi evo 5 turbos had only titanium shafts.. The weight saving that close to the axis of rotation would be negligable. Those were journal bearing turbos as well. I wager a Titanium oxide turbine would lose less rpm between shifts on a dual ceramic bearing center section than a titanium shaft on journal bearings.

          Sure PDK's and sequential transmissions are out of the old school realm, but that is a tiny share of the market. Companies like BW and Honeywell are making turbos for modern cars. THey are looking at the next 10 years of tuning, where EVO's are on dual clutch transmissions, 911 turbos turning 10's stock are running PDKs, and it is becoming harder and harder to get a 6 speeds. Even slushboxes these days shift faster than a H box.

          I think my opinions have been expressed. It will be interesting to see where the turbo market goes in the next 2 years. Cheers!
          1981 URQuattro with the TIAL GT35r.
          2007 Infinity g35

          Comment

          • Billman
            S2Forum Freak
            • Nov 2004
            • 4129

            #50
            I was talking about the Evo 6 Tommi Makkinen Edition had Titanium turbine impeller but it was prone to break as it was the case with Nissan Skyline with Ceramic impeller.
            Go Holset or Go RS4

            Comment

            • A80Avant
              S2Forum Obsessed
              • Sep 2005
              • 10873
              • Country: Greece

              #51
              Originally posted by repo
              which specific turbo are You referring to?

              A friend of mine took 780Nm with super40 from 2.2 liter. I think he had 2 bar around 3500rpm. But it was with 7a cams.

              I haven't used 7a for anything since I realized the gain at the top end is not worth the loss in spoolup and midrange, so I have very limited knowledge of 7a based setups.
              3500rpm and 2bar from a super40? with what hotside and which gear was the pull made?

              it was statements like these that made me try the super40 and then realise that you either need to invest 10K euros on engine parts to make the turbo have such small amount of lag, OR it is just not possible.

              on normal ADU cams and head, the super40 with 0.70 bullseye hotside does not give you 2bar on 5th gear(let alone 4th) which is the usual gear that dynos are done, sooner than 4000rpm.

              I used to get a slow increase in boost with that turbo and spec on 5th gear at somewhere around 3500rpm (around 0.7-0.8bar) and got into action after 4000rpm.

              With 7a cams and 2bar on 3500rpm even on 5th gear, my personal experience says that is impossible on an otherwise non ported head, non tubular manifolds, and a catted 76mm exhaust.

              Comment

              • Faheemo
                S2Forum Maniac
                • Feb 2005
                • 544
                • Country: South Africa

                #52
                Originally posted by URQguy
                You can hold 35psi to redline with a 30r on stock 3b/aan cams, but throwing 7a cams on a 20vt with tube headers and an intake manifold will result in a taper to ~ 28psi by 8500, regardless of wastegate settings.
                I dont understand this , why would an engine with 7a cams not be able to hold as much boost as a car with stock cams ?

                S2 Coupe fully built.
                10.9 1/4mile 0-100 in 3.5secs
                Precision 6262 turbo
                The Green Monster

                Comment

                • diesel des
                  S2Forum Possessed
                  • Feb 2004
                  • 3896

                  #53
                  The better top end cams allow the engine to out breath the turbo so boost falls off.

                  Comment

                  • Billman
                    S2Forum Freak
                    • Nov 2004
                    • 4129

                    #54
                    Think the following: boost pressure is the amount of pressure the engine sees but also shows the amount of air that engine can't process so it builds up.
                    Go Holset or Go RS4

                    Comment

                    • mastermind
                      S2Forum Addict
                      • Jan 2005
                      • 244
                      • Country: South Africa

                      #55
                      Now that's a lot of info to digest thnx Gentleman.

                      My target is 550 HP but looking for the spools similar to my GT3071/KKK 0.63A/R 50 Trim which I believe spools very well for my usage, however as I mentioned earlier the greed for more power mainly lead by my competition/buddies at the Hillclimbs with their Evos and Scoobies, but at the same time I dont intend giving up my daily driver ability of the S2.

                      I figure the only way to achieve this is to use a newer technology turbo, the GTX caught my eye, but it looks like the GTX 3071 although giving me the similar spool will probably give an extra 50HP, and then I had to ask my self if that was worth all the effort. So it looks like the new BW EFR 7670 is a better option than the GTX 3076, with better spool and is capable of reaching my stretch target figure of 550HP.

                      I'm not keen on changing the RS2 cams as I like the compromise they offer over the 7a's. I have just started the install of Wagner Tuning's short Intake kit and it now looks like I may have to be back at Wagner for the SQ manifold with T4 flange to get the best turbo for my usage.

                      All this will only work if my tuner does a good job though The ability to bring in the turbo progressively and not just shut the N75 until peak boost is reached is very important. I love lots of timing and only use race fuel( similar to Optimax 100) here is SA, never pump fuel which also helps.
                      Last edited by mastermind; 4 December 2010, 18:27.
                      The Red Baron
                      (R)S2 spec, 034 GT3071
                      Wagner Short Intake and Intercooler
                      Whiteline, Custom Shocks with external reservoirs
                      8pot calipers with A8 discs
                      Vems

                      Comment

                      • A80Avant
                        S2Forum Obsessed
                        • Sep 2005
                        • 10873
                        • Country: Greece

                        #56
                        i dont have a much different setup than yours(or as you plan to do it at least).

                        SQ EM, wagner inlet, GT3076R 0.82AR turbo. 4th gear 2.1bar @ 4000rpm and 3d gear @ 4250rpm.

                        ADU cams and head, with no porting and 76mm downpipe, twin cats and 70mm exhaust with 2 silencers. (custom made).

                        i believe that if i were to change the hotside to 0.63AR i would get much closer to my 3071R 0.63AR setup which i had(but with OEM Rs2 EM and OEM inlet) and the car would spool much faster. However the downside would definitelly be a fast reduction of power towards the top end, along with higher EGTs.

                        JP here used a 0.63ar hotside on the 3076 and managed to make 528hp on 7a cams BUT used a ported head with the .5mm larger valves as well, and OEM EM. (AAN inlet).

                        i was about to buy the 0.63ar to fit to my turbo, but thought to leave it and instead get a head ported and prepped for the future to give me more overall power per bar of boost and compensate for the later spool that the 0.82ar gives. If i end up not liking that, ill buy the 0.63ar then to fit.

                        The 0.82ar option will allow to eliminate the surge that the 3071 gives and produce close to 500hp, with the cost of more lag than the 3071 which is noticable.

                        Comment

                        • diesel des
                          S2Forum Possessed
                          • Feb 2004
                          • 3896

                          #57
                          A80advant, I have a .63 gt30r housing if you want to try it....

                          Comment

                          • A80Avant
                            S2Forum Obsessed
                            • Sep 2005
                            • 10873
                            • Country: Greece

                            #58
                            is it T3? if so, how much would you sell?

                            Comment

                            • diesel des
                              S2Forum Possessed
                              • Feb 2004
                              • 3896

                              #59
                              If you want to just try it just pay postage both ways. If you want to keep it we could work something out. Yea t3 flange. I also have the .82, and am interested in the difference between the two. But the engine this turbo is for still hasn't the urq back from painting.

                              Comment

                              • A80Avant
                                S2Forum Obsessed
                                • Sep 2005
                                • 10873
                                • Country: Greece

                                #60
                                pmed you

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