ARP head bolts

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  • madpugger
    S2Forum Extremist
    • Sep 2007
    • 1901
    • Country: Scotland

    #16
    I am offshore right now, but will check next week, I am sure mine said 65. This is why there is so much confusion!

    All I can say is, I did mine to 65 with sport q washers.

    Le Mans 2012
    Nurburgring 700
    1995 S2 Avant

    Comment

    • Simons
      S2Forum Maniac
      • Jul 2007
      • 530
      • Country: Spain

      #17
      Originally posted by madpugger
      No problem.

      The sp quattro washers are available from audi next day usually, but the standard ones are still better than ARP.

      The OEM torque is WAY too much for ARPs, for one, you are moving a nut not a bolt...

      I am pretty sure (Edit: - Deffo) it is 65ft/lb. There are people that use from 50 up.

      I did 25, 45, 65. Remember that you have to use ARP lubricant with these figures, put it on the treads, washers etc...
      Ok, I will use 3 steps, 25-45-65 lb/ft and the arp grease of the kit

      what head gasket have you got?

      Comment

      • Simons
        S2Forum Maniac
        • Jul 2007
        • 530
        • Country: Spain

        #18
        Originally posted by madpugger
        This is why there is so much confusion!
        I read many threads but I couldn't find a clear answer

        Comment

        • madpugger
          S2Forum Extremist
          • Sep 2007
          • 1901
          • Country: Scotland

          #19
          Originally posted by Simons
          Ok, I will use 3 steps, 25-45-65 lb/ft and the arp grease of the kit

          what head gasket have you got?
          Reinz/OE Audi (same thing)

          Le Mans 2012
          Nurburgring 700
          1995 S2 Avant

          Comment

          • Phil Payne
            S2Forum Addict
            • Jul 2009
            • 328
            • Country: United Kingdom

            #20
            Originally posted by madpugger
            11mm ARPs? 88 is WAY too much IMO. IIRC the OE bolts are 85, and as they are bolts they have a higher friction on the threads etc.
            Thanks to Pirvu Eugen for the original documentation - it's nice to have the manufactur's black-on-white and it does indeed say 80 lb/ft with their lubricant.

            I'm surprised. The Audi 40Nm, 60Nm and 180 degrees CERTAINLY produces more than 85 lb/ft. I've never actually measured the torque, but I know that if I do up a head with my normal extra-long FACON 1/2" tool I'm pretty knackered by the end of it.

            My tool of preference is a 3/4" drive extra-long breaker bar, and even with that you feel the last few tens of degrees.

            A friend has an electronic Snap-Off torque wrench that can be used in recording mode - opportunity permitting I'll use it on the next head I do and see what the Audi torque-to-yield procedure produces. But I'll bet it's a DAMN sight more than 85 lb/ft.

            Comment

            • madpugger
              S2Forum Extremist
              • Sep 2007
              • 1901
              • Country: Scotland

              #21
              Originally posted by Phil Payne
              Thanks to Pirvu Eugen for the original documentation - it's nice to have the manufactur's black-on-white and it does indeed say 80 lb/ft with their lubricant.

              I'm surprised. The Audi 40Nm, 60Nm and 180 degrees CERTAINLY produces more than 85 lb/ft. I've never actually measured the torque, but I know that if I do up a head with my normal extra-long FACON 1/2" tool I'm pretty knackered by the end of it.

              My tool of preference is a 3/4" drive extra-long breaker bar, and even with that you feel the last few tens of degrees.

              A friend has an electronic Snap-Off torque wrench that can be used in recording mode - opportunity permitting I'll use it on the next head I do and see what the Audi torque-to-yield procedure produces. But I'll bet it's a DAMN sight more than 85 lb/ft.
              This is half the problem though... My kit does not say 80Ft/Lb! I will dig it out when I get home...

              Le Mans 2012
              Nurburgring 700
              1995 S2 Avant

              Comment

              • Phil Payne
                S2Forum Addict
                • Jul 2009
                • 328
                • Country: United Kingdom

                #22
                Originally posted by madpugger
                This is half the problem though... My kit does not say 80Ft/Lb! I will dig it out when I get home...
                As a Nebenbei - what problem (real or perceived) are we trying to solve?

                Audi's bolts seem to have served well in production and competition cars.

                Comment

                • madpugger
                  S2Forum Extremist
                  • Sep 2007
                  • 1901
                  • Country: Scotland

                  #23
                  Nothing wrong with Audi bolts, apart from they are one use items...

                  ARP studs are re useable.

                  Le Mans 2012
                  Nurburgring 700
                  1995 S2 Avant

                  Comment

                  • Phil Payne
                    S2Forum Addict
                    • Jul 2009
                    • 328
                    • Country: United Kingdom

                    #24
                    Originally posted by madpugger
                    Nothing wrong with Audi bolts, apart from they are one use items...

                    ARP studs are re useable.
                    Ah, OK.

                    But Audi's bolts require no post-tightening - from what I read here (no personal experience) ARP requires checking after a hot-cold cycle, 250 miles and 1,000 miles. For most (all?) of my customers that's impractical.

                    Plus on 20V engines there's a fair amount of wear and tear on the cam cover gaskets getting back in and out.

                    Comment

                    • madpugger
                      S2Forum Extremist
                      • Sep 2007
                      • 1901
                      • Country: Scotland

                      #25
                      Yes I can see that being an issue. I guess ARP is a benefit for 'self fitment' where you may have a need to remove the head a few times. For a standard head gasket replacement due to blown gasket etc, audi bolts are probably a better bet.

                      Le Mans 2012
                      Nurburgring 700
                      1995 S2 Avant

                      Comment

                      • Pirvu Eugen
                        S2Forum Extremist
                        • Apr 2007
                        • 1978
                        • Country: Romania

                        #26
                        I dont know.....but...maibe, iff we tight the arp's at this 80 ft/lbs will not require retorque.
                        I have tight the bolts received with this torque...80ft/lbs disregarding the figures given by you guys here on the forum . I have installed an old cam cover gasket just to heat up the engine first time and then i will remove and recheck the torque.
                        I will let you know the result. Iff i will be able to retorque the bolts with the torque wrench fixed at 65 ft/lbs.
                        All the best!

                        Comment

                        • Simons
                          S2Forum Maniac
                          • Jul 2007
                          • 530
                          • Country: Spain

                          #27
                          Originally posted by madpugger
                          Reinz/OE Audi (same thing)


                          What do you think about elring? I hear that it was a good brand

                          Originally posted by Phil Payne
                          A friend has an electronic Snap-Off torque wrench that can be used in recording mode - opportunity permitting I'll use it on the next head I do and see what the Audi torque-to-yield procedure produces. But I'll bet it's a DAMN sight more than 85 lb/ft.
                          Thanks for the test

                          Comment

                          • madpugger
                            S2Forum Extremist
                            • Sep 2007
                            • 1901
                            • Country: Scotland

                            #28
                            I think RWD19T? uses them... So must be good. He will be able to advise on your torques too.

                            Le Mans 2012
                            Nurburgring 700
                            1995 S2 Avant

                            Comment

                            • Bram
                              S2Forum Fiend
                              • Aug 2006
                              • 2582
                              • Country: Netherlands

                              #29
                              We used 90Nm on the ARP head studs. Using wider washers, as the OEM ARP washers are too narrow.

                              Comment

                              • madpugger
                                S2Forum Extremist
                                • Sep 2007
                                • 1901
                                • Country: Scotland

                                #30
                                Originally posted by Bram
                                We used 90Nm on the ARP head studs. Using wider washers, as the OEM ARP washers are too narrow.
                                Thats good to know, thats ~65 ft/lb which is what I used and JP suggested to me too

                                Le Mans 2012
                                Nurburgring 700
                                1995 S2 Avant

                                Comment

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