Siemens Deka 630cc/660cc Direct fit? Best Place to buy?

[S2central.net]

Finally - a decent resource....

http://www.bosch-motorsport.com/en-US/literature/en-US/InjectionValveE_DataSheet_enUS_T6748845579.pdf

There is a standard and long version of the EV6 body. Other info I have says the Volvo 415cc is long.

Do I understand correctly that standard EV6 dimensions are same as our OE fitted EV1 ?

If standard EV6 is shorter than our EV1 body then a spacer is needed to fill the gaps to the fuel rail

If long EV6 is longer than our EV1 body then spacers would be needed to allow the fuel rail to mount slightly higher than normal - with longer bolts too

[S2central.net]

Yes Paul I got the height spacers and adapters free with them and I'm running them with vems, Repo recommended them to me and my idle issues were sorted over the rc eng injectors they were the ev14

So the spacer sits between top of injector and fuel rail ?

Do you have a link to source for the spacers and extra o-rings ?

[S2central.net]

Another reason why I think confusion and hype creeps into injector sizing is that Bosch rates them with a chemical called n-heptane (not petrol) and measures flow in grams per minute (g/min). To get flow in ccpm you have to use the correct density.

For n-heptane this is 0.68g/cc which yields a result of 455ccpm for the volvo 155 968 injector (310g/min) when using n-heptane.

However the density of petrol ranges from 0.71 to 0.77 g/cc so lets say 0.74 on average to yield 419ccpm using petrol for the same injector.

This is worth remembering when shopping for injectors that are close to your target/ideal capability as the sellers will invariably quote the values from datasheets, which in Bosch's case refer to n-heptane.

[S2central.net]

Now of course.... depending on how you think about these things... the plot thickens.

Firstly our ECU is only concerned air mass and fuel mass - it will make adjustments to injector duty cycle (IDC) in order to make the desired ratio of air to fuel in terms of mass e.g 14.7 for stohic mixture. This means it is the amount of petrol mass that we inject per minute is the more important factor than volume in terms of ccpm.

Lets take that 310g/min of n-heptane that gave us 455cc of fluid... if you assume that the same volume of petrol would be injected in a minute then we have 337g/min of petrol from the same injector. That is an increase of 9% in terms of MASS compared to n-heptane. This is only true if the viscosity of petrol is identical to n-heptane. It might be the case that *more* petrol can be flowed in volume terms.

This article discusses the subject too and rightly (IMHO) suggests use of measuring fluid nearer the density of petrol when getting injectors flow tested.

http://southbayfuelinjectors.blogspot.com/p/method-of-flow-calibrating.html

That article suggests a 12% difference

This is all academic of course - given that MASS of petrol delivered is going to be slightly higher than what the injector ratings say it gives us a little bit of margin when referencing any specs in g/min or lb/hr that use n-heptane for measurement.

This website below suggests a factor of 3.5% is used for the conversion in terms of flow (or mass) - lol

http://www.racetronix.biz/itemdesc.asp?ic=01D030x&eq=&Tp=

Its enough to keep you awake at night....... NOT

[Jamo]

So the spacer sits between top of injector and fuel rail ?

Do you have a link to source for the spacers and extra o-rings ?

You get them with the injectors or you can buy them from 034 or http://www.fiveomotorsport.com/

There's a place in finland thats sells them also, link was posted within the last few months I'd have to find them

Basically you want this http://www.034motorsport.com/fuel-in...r-p-17564.html

and this http://www.034motorsport.com/fuel-in...s-p-17911.html

The 034 ones are the best i've seen as they use the injector clip

[Thuppu]

There's a place in finland thats sells them also, link was posted within the last few months I'd have to find them

MKS/Finjector http://www.finjector.com/verkkokauppa/client/index/9/

[Ross]

You get them with the injectors or you can buy them from 034 or http://www.fiveomotorsport.com/

There's a place in finland thats sells them also, link was posted within the last few months I'd have to find them

Basically you want this http://www.034motorsport.com/fuel-in...r-p-17564.html

and this http://www.034motorsport.com/fuel-in...s-p-17911.html

The 034 ones are the best i've seen as they use the injector clip

Jamo plays the ace card

[S2central.net]

Nice links chaps... The fiveo site is confusing me though - describes 0 280 158 117 as an EV14 injector (EV6 plug) with 47lb/hr capability (n-heptane) and min pulse width of 2ms - which contradicts the info on the boschdealer.com datasheet... its impossible to trust any of these hokey websites.

[Thuppu]

...its impossible to trust any of these hokey websites.

Tell me about it. Have been searching info of these 550cc 0280158117 injectors for a while. I think there is many different versions of them out there with custom bore. Even the Boschdealer has the same part number for 650-, 750-, 850-, and 1000cc injectors. Can't undestand why there is no official datasheed, or even any info about these injectors directly from Bosch..? Very annoying.

[prj]

That's just how Bosch is - very annoying

[Ross]

Is this a fair summary?


Bosch 440cc '558 - NLA, similar to RS2 but with 440cc, proven but hard to get hold of

Bosch "Green Giant" - replaces '558 but with 415cc and unknown suitability, in theory a good match for 400-420hp application

Bosch 550cc EV14 - requires spacer and EV6-EV1 connector - improved spray pattern, ideal match for 400-500hp


I'm trying to draw conclusions on which is best to buy - I want to get these state side before I leave on thursday night, which means ordering Monday. I may have to buy a few sets to get the best deal (particularly if I get 558's) and don't want to get landed with a bunch of injectors that aren't ideal for I5 applications...

I am now leaning toward order 550cc sets but not sure if the EV14 is an issue on stock motronic?

[Billman]

Many cars run Siemens and idle fine. On my car I have set the idle for other issues a bit high at 1000 and they run the with 1.45-1.5 pw with a lambda of 1.04.

[prj]

The 558's are not as good as RS2's.
RS2's are awesome, they are Porsche spec and almost 2x as good as other EV1's by their parameters.

Bosch "Green Giant" - replaces '558 but with 415cc and unknown suitability, in theory a good match for 400-420hp application

It should be a bolt on injector, I just ordered 10, I'll let you know.

Bosch 550cc EV14 - requires spacer and EV6-EV1 connector - improved spray pattern, ideal match for 400-500hp

It's enough for 530-540 hp.

I am now leaning toward order 550cc sets but not sure if the EV14 is an issue on stock motronic?

Go for it. It'll work fine on stock Motronic

[Ross]

Prj - thanks for that. I'll stop hunting down 558's now then

I didn't realise the RS2 injector was rated so highly. You could say the RS2 injector, turbo and MAF are all pretty well matched then! Both the 968s and 550s will meet my 400-420hp requirement it's just a case of which is the best then. I'll probably get a set of 550s, sure I can move them along if the Volvo turns out to be better.

[prj]

Volvo is not better.
550cc's have better parameters for sure.

But Volvo should be plug and play, 550's require much more effort.