Oil ways into ARP rods

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  • Thuppu
    S2Forum Freak
    • Sep 2010
    • 4115
    • Country: Finland

    #61
    I would call something like titanium rods high end. Using Pauter or china rods, both is enough for 700+hp... where is the limit? Quite few knows.

    Edit. If I remember right Repo told somewhere that passive lubricated pin rods last 20-30t km on heavy power use before there is too much play in the pin buchings.
    Last edited by Thuppu; 10 December 2011, 19:22.

    Audi UrS4 Avant 2.5 20vt - twincharged - Project
    Audi 80q B4 Sedan 2.2 20vt - Daily user
    BMW 320d Touring e91 M-Sport - Daily user
    BMW 740iA e38 - Project

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    • A80Avant
      S2Forum Obsessed
      • Sep 2005
      • 10873
      • Country: Greece

      #62
      Define heavy power...

      As I said. Used them (scat)for 100k kms and reused them recently, no play

      sent using Android

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      • djh
        S2Forum Extremist
        • Jun 2011
        • 1622
        • Home: United States Current: United Kingdom

        #63
        Originally posted by A80Avant
        Define heavy power...

        As I said. Used them for 100k kms and reused them recently, mo play

        sent using Android
        moderator power

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        • Thuppu
          S2Forum Freak
          • Sep 2010
          • 4115
          • Country: Finland

          #64
          Originally posted by A80Avant
          Define heavy power...

          As I said. Used them for 100k kms and reused them recently, mo play

          sent using Android
          Well, I think when Repo mean heavy power it means something like track use with "little" more than stock power. I try to dig up the comment, I think it was on our finnish forum...

          Audi UrS4 Avant 2.5 20vt - twincharged - Project
          Audi 80q B4 Sedan 2.2 20vt - Daily user
          BMW 320d Touring e91 M-Sport - Daily user
          BMW 740iA e38 - Project

          Comment

          • Error404
            Super Moderator
            • Mar 2007
            • 19789
            • Country: United Kingdom

            #65
            Its a simply choice for me. Why would VAG with their multi billion euro R&D including 3 decades of motorsport increase their production costs by rifle drilling the OEM rods if it was not necessary? What would then know?
            Panthero Coupé quattro 20vt
            Indigo ABY coupé
            Imola B6 S4 Avant

            Comment

            • Jamo
              Retired OG Mod
              • Mar 2004
              • 21750
              • Country: United Kingdom

              #66
              Exactly Error404, take Hamish no expense spared on his build, what did he use? Pauter rifle drilled http://www.s2forum.com/forum/showpos...&postcount=334

              Comment

              • A80Avant
                S2Forum Obsessed
                • Sep 2005
                • 10873
                • Country: Greece

                #67
                Originally posted by Error404
                Its a simply choice for me. Why would VAG with their multi billion euro R&D including 3 decades of motorsport increase their production costs by rifle drilling the OEM rods if it was not necessary? What would then know?


                we should investigate further before making claims that their production costs would be increased or not, since if pauter can provide this on custom rods with small costs in addition, then we might think that audi on a huge production probably had to pay close to nothing to have this done.

                Guys, all of your points are valid, but before going into theories, look at the facts.

                Google around if you have the time and will, and find for us all the engines that have been damaged OR had to replace the rods in the periods Repo was suggesting (20-30k kms), because this modificiation was non existant.

                Look at how many S2 owners have been succesfully been using scat rods without issues and how much mileage has been done on them without all those issues that you imply that will appear just because the drill is not there.

                It all has to do with what you are going to be using the car for. If you are going for track use and heavy power and always on the edge of the rev range, then pick something robust with all the mods on for a piece of mind.
                If you are aiming for some more power with spirited driving, maybe you dont need to spend a fortune,and the proof is out there.

                Same kind of discussions have been done over the years about pistons and rings, and coverings, and compression and a lot of things. There is no definitive right or wrong. There are multiple solutions and we should accept that and not dismiss any other choise just because we hypothesize on it. Show some robust results that this is a mod that if not there it will create a problem and back up your theories. If there arent any, then just accept that it works without the mod. simple!

                we can all happily agree to disagree, you dont have to persuade anyone of your choice but at least accept that its a right choice if it is proven it works.

                Comment

                • Thuppu
                  S2Forum Freak
                  • Sep 2010
                  • 4115
                  • Country: Finland

                  #68
                  Originally posted by Thuppu
                  Well, I think when Repo mean heavy power it means something like track use with "little" more than stock power. I try to dig up the comment, I think it was on our finnish forum...
                  Ok, found the comment, 550hp ~15tkm with 20mm pin. Still know many that has used them a lot more without trouble, of course on street cars.

                  Audi UrS4 Avant 2.5 20vt - twincharged - Project
                  Audi 80q B4 Sedan 2.2 20vt - Daily user
                  BMW 320d Touring e91 M-Sport - Daily user
                  BMW 740iA e38 - Project

                  Comment

                  • G60Rallye
                    S2Forum Extremist
                    • Dec 2006
                    • 1321
                    • Country: United Kingdom

                    #69
                    Originally posted by Jamo
                    Exactly Error404, take Hamish no expense spared on his build, what did he use? Pauter rifle drilled http://www.s2forum.com/forum/showpos...&postcount=334
                    Obviously I could have gone way more exotic with the rods, but I dont think there is a better option for strength than the Pauter's. I went for the riffle drilling after a discussion with JP. It gets the oil to the underside of the pin where its needed to support the forces coming down from the piston. It will also help with cooling which is often forgotten with oil.

                    It is however worth remembering that many vintage engines like Ford Model A's only ran splash BIG end oiling. Different type of engine to a 500bhp+ 5 cylinder!

                    Comment

                    • quattro84
                      S2Forum Maniac
                      • Mar 2006
                      • 947
                      • Country: Netherlands

                      #70
                      Biggest issue concerning rifle drilling of rods is the design and usage of material. Due to the way the Pauter is shaped it is far more easy to rifle drill it. Compare the cross sections to a H-shaped rod and you know what i am after. Adding material in the center of the cross section doesn't bring any more resistance to buckling, so no need to add it single and alone for oiling purposes.

                      I know from diesels that it all has to do with durability. The excess of oil gets 'pumped' by the big end bearing to the small end to level out temperatures making the bearing material more stable over time.

                      Do we need it on high HP engines? Nope i don't thinks so, but it would not make it any worse having it

                      My part submitted by the imfamous Holset crew

                      Comment

                      • Billman
                        S2Forum Freak
                        • Nov 2004
                        • 4129

                        #71
                        Originally posted by quattro84
                        My part submitted by the imfamous Holset crew[/I]



                        hahahah
                        Go Holset or Go RS4

                        Comment

                        • europeanme
                          S2Forum Possessed
                          • Oct 2005
                          • 3817
                          • Country: United Kingdom

                          #72
                          blimey I didn't expect this sort of "debate" into an idea...

                          right or wrong it is something I will investigate and who knows what I will do....but again all input gratefully received

                          Comment

                          • A80Avant
                            S2Forum Obsessed
                            • Sep 2005
                            • 10873
                            • Country: Greece

                            #73
                            I think it makes sense if you go for this mod that your 6pot brakes won't be able to fit... There is logic in that... Honestly!

                            sent using Android

                            Comment

                            • QuattroFever
                              S2Forum Extremist
                              • May 2006
                              • 1360
                              • Country: United Kingdom

                              #74
                              rifle drilling. You building an engine with them or you planning on shooting someone with them?
                              Volcano ABY coupe

                              Ant

                              Comment

                              • europeanme
                                S2Forum Possessed
                                • Oct 2005
                                • 3817
                                • Country: United Kingdom

                                #75
                                Originally posted by A80Avant
                                I think it makes sense if you go for this mod that your 6pot brakes won't be able to fit... There is logic in that... Honestly!

                                sent using Android
                                nice try Vas.....8 out of 10 for effort....

                                @Ant - maybe a little of both...

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