Rocket Fuel Calculations

[Doug_RS2]

So where can we buy Toluene in the UK? And for how much?

[leo]

well, I use a Shell 99+ Vpower racing combined with 106 Octane plane-fuel in mixture 3:1 (3 parts of shell for one part of plane-fuel). Of course the plane-fuel is with lead, but I don't care, 'coz my lambda probe isn't connected to do EM

But the funny thing is that I never managed to .... test it on road-dyno .... due to car transmission failure... But I will! Just wanted You to know I'll test it.

btw. in Poland the 106 octane fuel costs about 1.5 euro, compared to Shell VRacing 99+ that costs 1 Euro .... it isn't a big difference.

[diesel des]

So where can we buy Toluene in the UK? And for how much?

Try car paint supply places. Thats where i can get mine. Some thinners are just Toluene, and others are the tolouene/xylene mix. The mix is about 1/5 price of just toloune becouse they sell huge quantitys of the mix. I get 25L celouse for £12. I run it streight in a GTI golf. Runs fine. Harder to start. I notice that if i run a 50% mix with petrol, there seems to be no problem with it setteling out in the tank as the pump keeps it mixed up. Have timming set so it pinks on petrol.

Also its not much worse to handel than petrol. May car body people use it to remove paint from they hands. I do to. Also i keep the sprak gun full of it and use that as a preasure degresser on engine parts. Works great!

[S2central.net]

Millers treatment levels:
-Octane plus comes in 250ml bottles and treats 50 litres (although treatment can be doubled)
-CVL comes in 250ml bottles and treats 20 litres (maximum!)
-CVL Turbo comes in 500ml bottles and treats 20 litres (maximum!)

Not had a chance to check out your excel file yet Paul. I'll have a butchers later.

Lee - check myEXCEL. That 2.5% concentration (500ml in 20litres) doesn't get anything close to the claimed 100RON referred to in Millers material. I'm NOT trying to poo-poo you and Millers here - its just I thought there product was based on Toluene (like other Octane boosters) - so I can't get the numbers to match.

My calcs show a need for 2 litres of Toluene added to 18 litres of Optimax to get RON=100.5 and MON=94.7 - thats a 10% mixture.

This flyer from Millers doesn't state the amount used for the claimed values - hence my question !

http://www.millersoils.co.uk/pdf_downloads/Millers_octane.pdf

Paul

[Lee]

The dosages I posted are the maximum recommended. The tests are the result of those dosages. I will have a look at your excel file now.

[Lee]

Millers Octane Booster is not toluene. It is a tad more complicated than that.

[4WheelDrifter]

Toluene's not the ultimate for octane rating.
Xylene and long chain cycloalkanes are higher just to name some known compounds.

[Lee]

Octane plus contains Methylcyclopentadientyl and Manganese Tricarbonyl,
CVL contains the above PLUS Xylene
I do not have any data on the contents of CVL turbo as I am out of stock until Tuesday.

[4WheelDrifter]

Zoiks!!
I have no idea what a entyl group looks like.
I suspect there's some other little known ingredients also.

[4WheelDrifter]

The other thing to consider with additives, is that some contain compounds that on their own, contain no apparent combustion benefits. But when mixed with fuel aid combustion. For example by helping to distribute complex hydrocarbons and/or breaking down surface tension.

[Jamo]

Octane plus contains Methylcyclopentadientyl and Manganese Tricarbonyl,
CVL contains the above PLUS Xylene
I do not have any data on the contents of CVL turbo as I am out of stock until Tuesday.

10 years ago i could have drawn it just like that! amazing what you forget over time.

I'm of to find my oraganic and inorganic text books

[S2central.net]

Octane plus contains Methylcyclopentadientyl and Manganese Tricarbonyl,
CVL contains the above PLUS Xylene
I do not have any data on the contents of CVL turbo as I am out of stock until Tuesday.

Ahhhh - MMT - let me skooch about for more info on that...

[S2central.net]

Contains Manganese - not so eco friendly - has lead like effects apparently.

Is MMT okay to run with CATs an Lambda probes ?


Paul

[S2central.net]

The knock resiliency of MMT seems to be the trick, though I cannot find RON/MON values anywhere.

Its the COST of an MMT based additive that is important as anything - say Toluene based.

I know Toluene is not the ultimate octane booster, but it seems easy enough to get a hold of in decent quantities.

PS Guys - Toluene (C7H8) is different stuff from the carcinogenic Benzene (C6H6). Xylene is different again (C8H10).

Confusing stuff this milarkey...

[Greg_S]

been doing some more research so decided to post in here instead of the Optimax thread.

found this site which talks about RON, MON and PON

http://www.btinternet.com/~madmole/Reference/RONMONPON.html