RR plot

[maRS2]

Remenber also that bigger, larger or heavier wheel increase powerloss so at the end
less power on the tarmack.
Thats why the scooby guy's are so crazy of those 18" SSR wheel of 6kg each
and why I will never put again some of those super heavy RS4 wheels ( had those RS4 on my work Vr6 Transporter it feels like i lost 30 Hp now got some superlegera OZ and the bus is flying).
I think it's the same for the big brake Kit?

[Doug_RS2]

If thats correct I don´t think thats pretty much, when here in Brazil are a lot of golfs gti only with small upgrades without internals with 300 whps and some 320 whps. with only 1.4 bar in K16 turbos running ethanol.

If the brazilian rolling roads are anytihng like US rolling roads they are not a good comparison as it is worked out differently. Ask Mihnea - he can easily compare uk/european car to the US guys - and the US ones say they have huge bhp at the wheels when they don't compared to cars over here.

1.8T golfs with big turbos will run 320bhp at the flywheel - if they are running much more than that the standard crank will not take it. I don't beleive that with 400bhp at the flywheel they haven't broke their cranks when they regularly do over here. Some numbers don't add up!

[audiman]

325bhp at the wheels is alot!! Did you also say ethanol!! I was running std street fuel 98 octane. Doug had 2 tins of octane booster in his

Believe me, with approx 480bhp at the flywheel, it isnt exactly slow. Would like to see a 1.8T golf running a K16 beat it.

[Pete_RS2]

What power was you running when you were pi$$ing all over those Golfs at GTI International Tom ?

[audiman]

About 360bhp at the flywheel and a small boost leak!! (for once)

[Mihnea]

Totally agreed with what you guys said, no way a Golf 1.8T with a K16 can do 320 at the wheels with 1.4 Bar, a tuner friend of mine in Germany just got 306 HP at the crank with a K16 on a 225HP TT engine.


If you guys in Brazil have the same dynos as in the US (i.e. DynoDynamics, Mustang, DynoJet, etc etc), then the figures you guys get are way off. Those dynos measure crap and the figures coming from them are crap.

Last summer, when I was tuning in the US, we had stock S4s (100 S4, AAN engine) putting out 190-225 HP *at the wheels* with only 230 HP at the crank from the factory????? No way. It's pointless to start looking for explanations, the easy one is: THE DYNOS ARE OFF. We have checked everything in those cars, even desoldered stock chips from the ECUs and read them to make sure they were stock chips, checked WGFVs, WG springs, boost levels etc etc etc, and everything was well in spec for stock cars. The explanation? Those dynos are off.

I can tell you I have been in one S2 dyno tuned on a DynoDynamics dyno in the US that did 325 to the ground, it just had nothing to do with Tom's or Doug's cars. It just felt weak and nowhere near as fast as Tom's and Doug's.

So, IMHO, first you should get a ride in Tom's and Doug's car, then make your own opinion. In the US, they claim 350 at the wheels in a FWD 1.8T with a GT2871RS turbo and moderate (1.5-ish bar) boost levels. There is simply no way to do this. The engine doesn't flow enough air to provide this sort of power.

HTH,


Mihnea

[S2sedan]

1- AudiS2 said: AWD golf GTis ?

no its FWD we don`t have awd overhere

2- post By DOUG If the brazilian rolling roads are anytihng like US rolling roads they are not a good comparison as it is worked out differently. Ask Mihnea - he can easily compare uk/european car to the US guys - and the US ones say they have huge bhp at the wheels when they don't compared to cars over here.
1.8T golfs with big turbos will run 320bhp at the flywheel - if they are running much more than that the standard crank will not take it. I don't beleive that with 400bhp at the flywheel they haven't broke their cranks when they regularly do over here. Some numbers don't add up!

Thats what the dynojet said ... I know that 320whp are not reliable in this cars with originals internals ... Some with K16 some with GT25 ...

3- 325bhp at the wheels is alot!! Did you also say ethanol!! I was running std street fuel 98 octane. Doug had 2 tins of octane booster in his

Believe me, with approx 480bhp at the flywheel, it isnt exactly slow. Would like to see a 1.8T golf running a K16 beat it.

Answ: Audiman, we use Ethanol here as a very common and cheap combustible. All our gasoline are added with at least 24% of ethanol. And they are really crap. We have Podium gas From Petrobras that gives BMW Williams fuel, and it is like crap (supposed to be the best here)
I don`t realy think that is slow, I just think that a smaller engine with smaller turbos should get less power. Please enter this site ..this guy did some of them there are some infos about the cars. www.herreramotors.com.br and dyno plots.
there is e very close friend of mine that have a golf gti too.
this car is very well built. with titanium crower rods, ross pistons, 3 inches pressure tubes, huge intercooler ... 1.8 bar with 440 whp on dynojet too ... with 600 nm of torque. I have the plot.

The point is are this engine better then ours ????

[diesel des]

Check this out ! http://www.atpturbo.com/

430+ wBHP 1.8T quattro. Yes at wheels! Stock internals.... BIG turbo. Maybe the US BHP figurs are off? Why thoug? Whats Wrong with their rollers?

[maRS2]

also HP and Ps are differentower coversions:
1 PS = 0.9859 HP = 75 Kgf m/sec
1.3405 HP = 1 KW
1 HP = 746 watts

[S2sedan]

Check this out ! http://www.atpturbo.com/

430+ wBHP 1.8T quattro. Yes at wheels! Stock internals.... BIG turbo. Maybe the US BHP figurs are off? Why thoug? Whats Wrong with their rollers?

I realy do not believe this kind of power without internals have seen some GTI with rods out with 350whp....

[S2sedan]

I saw the 440whp gti acceleratin with a 996 turbo with 1.2 bar boost.
rolling start until 230 km/h ( the road had some traffic) spanked the 996 ...
Its amazing the grip with two stages boost and yokohamas A032 tires in 17 " BBS Wheels. Never thought that a front wheel drive could grip like that with this kind of power ... I try to post some pictures ... anyone knows how ???

[Doug_RS2]

@Tom - Who has the most power at the wheels in the 2 graphs?

I would have though my 19s and fat tyres would have caused more losses - especially against your standard wheels and 205s.

Is this a difference between gearboxes - 6 speed against 5 speed?

[Mihnea]

@S2Sedan and DieselDes, read my post above about Dynojets if you still can't figure. A stock 100 S4 will do 210 HP at the wheels on those Pieces Of **** dynos.


If you want to know how much power you have at the crank, stick the car onto a Bosch or Maha 4WD dyno and you'll know. Anything else will just not be reliable in terms of figures.


Mihnea

[Mihnea]

440wHP on a FWD golf would simply mean that he couldn't get any traction in any gear. Thus, a 996TT could have a chance. If he had traction at these power levels (which is where I have doubts about the power figures), then he could easily out-accelerate any caron the planet, which I sorta doubt. 10 seconds 1/4 mile???? sub 10 seconds with this sort of power, if he had it???? top speed with that sort of power would be in the region of 350 km/h...

I saw the 440whp gti acceleratin with a 996 turbo with 1.2 bar boost.
rolling start until 230 km/h ( the road had some traffic) spanked the 996 ...
Its amazing the grip with two stages boost and yokohamas A032 tires in 17 " BBS Wheels. Never thought that a front wheel drive could grip like that with this kind of power ... I try to post some pictures ... anyone knows how ???

[SR71]

440wHP on a FWD golf would simply mean that he couldn't get any traction in any gear. Thus, a 996TT could have a chance. If he had traction at these power levels (which is where I have doubts about the power figures), then he could easily out-accelerate any caron the planet, which I sorta doubt. 10 seconds 1/4 mile???? sub 10 seconds with this sort of power, if he had it???? top speed with that sort of power would be in the region of 350 km/h...

Check out 10 sec HKS Celica about 2/3 of the way down the page.

10 sec FWD cars do exist although granted I reckon there aren't many sleepers with that capability.



Adrian at Fensport has a 400hp FWD AE111 Corolla which I saw go through its evolution when I had my ST185.

His new Corolla is a AWD 600hp sleeper that any Diablo let alone 996TT ought to beware of!