RS2 Cam Timing

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  • nilo
    S2Forum Fanatic
    • Oct 2007
    • 55
    • Country: Brazil

    #1

    RS2 Cam Timing

    Hello guys,

    I´m having a rough time reassembling my ADU after changing the head gasket. When reassembling it, I verifyed the both marks on camshafts aligned, as well as the sprocket mark with the head. After haveing all those aligned, I moved the sprocket one tooth in retard, so as should be in ADU, right?
    Doing that, I´m getting G40 Hall sender mechanical fault on the diagnosis, and the car won´t start. I tryed, then, aligning the mark on the sprocket with the head, and I can get the car to start, but I start getting fault signal from G28.
    I have tried looking for threads on this subject, for I sure I´m not the first one asking about this, but the info seems to be conflicting. Plus, many times, people refer to AAN, and we know ADU has different timing complications, right? Please, any info on thet subject will be most appreciated, for I really seem to be out of options here.

    Best regards from sunny Rio
  • stocious
    S2Forum Maniac
    • Jul 2012
    • 838
    • Country: Ireland

    #2
    Why not leave the engine timed as it is supposed to be?
    1991 S2 3B Coupe, KW v1, solid sub frames, poly bushed, chipped, about 260 ish

    Comment

    • nilo
      S2Forum Fanatic
      • Oct 2007
      • 55
      • Country: Brazil

      #3
      That´s the whole question! How is it supposed to be? For all I have known, it is supposed to be on tooth off, or am I getting something wrong? I just want it to be the way it is "supposed to be", really.

      Regards

      Comment

      • AndyP
        S2Forum Zealot
        • Feb 2004
        • 6049
        • Country: England

        #4
        Have a read of this

        sigpic
        1991 Audi S2 3B - 2.5 Stroker engine
        1997 A6 2.5TDi quattro avant - C4
        1976 RD250E / 350LC cafe racer

        Comment

        • nilo
          S2Forum Fanatic
          • Oct 2007
          • 55
          • Country: Brazil

          #5
          Ok, Andy, thanks for your answer. On my car, all mark are aligned, then I take the sprocket one tooth to the left, right? In this way, I get the hall sender fault msg. is it really one tooth, or slight less than one? I´ve seen people mentioning half a tooth or something.

          Best Regards

          Comment

          • UrS4boy
            S2Forum Obsessed
            • Feb 2006
            • 11859
            • Country: Canada

            #6
            Originally posted by AndyP
            Have a read of this
            No offense to you Andy but I call "BS" on this one tooth to the left business. I just checked a copy of the RS2 ADU Workshop manual and there is NO reference to this. Just a reference to the AAN manual with a note for pg. 15-1 that is not related to cam timing. The factory RS2 exhaust cam sprocket (034109105B) is already modified to take care of the 10 deg difference in the cam lobe advance/retard relative to the AAN and ABY exhaust cam specs. Line up the two O's, O---O, should be good.

            Naturally, I will change my mind if somebody posts up a factory document that details the one-tooth to the left requirement.

            RS2 Cam sprocket (Note the B)


            Photo courtesy of Tom S.
            Last edited by UrS4boy; 1 April 2013, 18:09.
            RS2'd 93 UrS4 5 spd sedan
            94 UrS4 V8 6 spd manual avant

            Comment

            • stocious
              S2Forum Maniac
              • Jul 2012
              • 838
              • Country: Ireland

              #7
              I thought the cam sprocket was different for this reason also.. Unless the chain wheels are on a different phase also?
              Interesting thread !
              1991 S2 3B Coupe, KW v1, solid sub frames, poly bushed, chipped, about 260 ish

              Comment

              • spink
                S2Forum Freak
                • Jul 2003
                • 4382
                • Country: England

                #8
                Defo not 'BS'

                Comment

                • george21
                  S2Forum Addict
                  • Aug 2007
                  • 226
                  • Home: Lithuania Current: United Kingdom

                  #9
                  maybe a stupid question,but, are you using 150 tooth rs2 belt with 26 tooth rs2 water pump?
                  or it will not work i believe.

                  Comment

                  • twoqu
                    S2Forum Possessed
                    • Sep 2003
                    • 3103

                    #10


                    That shows the accepted evidence based setting.
                    Audi were too lazy to even do an ABY factory manual let alone an ADU one!
                    As to the theory behind it, might be better to start another thread.

                    Comment

                    • robo
                      S2Forum Fiend
                      • Aug 2004
                      • 2086
                      • Home: Poland Current: England

                      #11
                      Originally posted by UrS4boy
                      No offense to you Andy but I call "BS" on this one tooth to the left business. I just checked a copy of the RS2 ADU Workshop manual and there is NO reference to this. J.
                      If you had no Rs2 you will not know, (even the stealer has no clue) If you do one tooth before the mark the car may not boost.
                      Just align everything and then move the cam wheel back 1/2 tooth back.
                      sigpic_________
                      Rob

                      Comment

                      • UrS4boy
                        S2Forum Obsessed
                        • Feb 2006
                        • 11859
                        • Country: Canada

                        #12
                        Originally posted by spink
                        Defo not 'BS'
                        More like myth then. If you repeat the myth for long enough, does it become reality??

                        (Why is there no factory documentation on this somewhere?)

                        This photo that twoqu pointed me too shows a cam sprocket aligned a bit to the left. It doesn't document why. (No offense meant twoqu)

                        RS2'd 93 UrS4 5 spd sedan
                        94 UrS4 V8 6 spd manual avant

                        Comment

                        • twoqu
                          S2Forum Possessed
                          • Sep 2003
                          • 3103

                          #13
                          Well according to parchments at the time the Earth was flat!
                          If there is not something funky about the RS2 vs ABY/AAN then why is there a different cam pulley?
                          It appears they had to reposition the rotor for the hall sender on the RS2 to take account of the different pulley position when timed correctly. Unless you have another explanation backed by factory documentation for the change, which of course you will not.
                          I have personally corrected an RS2 myself and there is a wealth of others experience on here to document the same.
                          If you time it up using the factory mark you get the hall sensor fault code and lower boost.
                          Whilst it does appear to be counter intuitive, it is not documented officially. It is only through members experiences that it become to be noticed.

                          Comment

                          • UrS4boy
                            S2Forum Obsessed
                            • Feb 2006
                            • 11859
                            • Country: Canada

                            #14
                            Originally posted by twoqu
                            ...If there is not something funky about the RS2 vs ABY/AAN then why is there a different cam pulley? It appears they had to reposition the rotor for the hall sender on the RS2 to take account of the different pulley position when timed correctly.
                            I know that the G40 cam position sender shutter wheel on the RS2 Exhaust cam sprocket 034109105B has its opening 10 degrees different than the AAN/ABY exhaust cam. This is because Porsche adjusted the intake cam timing by 10 degrees (but still wanted the ignition spark to occur at the same basic time as the AAN/ABY). The mark on the chain drive sprocket on the RS2 exhaust cam should be 10 degrees away from the equivalent AAN/ABY exhaust cam mark.

                            Cam specs:

                            Intake

                            AAN, ABY, 3B_ Opens 3° ATDC, closes 25° ABDC, duration 202°, lift 8,3mm
                            ADU__________Opens 13° ATDC, closes 35° ABDC, duration 202°, lift 8,3mm?

                            Exhaust

                            AAN, ABY, 3B_ Opens 42° BBDC, closes 9° BTDC, duration 213°, lift 8,6mm
                            ADU__________ Opens 24° BBDC, closes 1° ATDC, duration 205°, lift 9,5mm

                            Intake cams:

                            AAN, ABY, ADU 034109021AN (after mid-Feb.1991, 021AQ)
                            Opens 3° ATDC, closes 25° ABDC, duration 202°, lift 8.3mm
                            Note: installed, the ADU Opens 13° ATDC, closes 35° ABDC, duration 202°, lift 8.3 mm (because the RS2 cam sprocket is "turned" 10 deg)

                            Conclusion: The one tooth trick must be because, somehow, the Porsche engineers Fk'd up.
                            RS2'd 93 UrS4 5 spd sedan
                            94 UrS4 V8 6 spd manual avant

                            Comment

                            • twoqu
                              S2Forum Possessed
                              • Sep 2003
                              • 3103

                              #15
                              I guess this method was down to cost on what was really the end for the line for the I5. So rather than manufacture a new correct cam pulley they took the cheapest option, making use of bits that already existed. Just like the water pump really. It was just the same for a lot of the other RS2 bits which look like they come from Porsche parts bins, some modified, some not.

                              Comment

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