G28 engine speed sensor for AAN conversion

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  • twoqu
    S2Forum Possessed
    • Sep 2003
    • 3103

    #46
    I agree that the TDC mark on the flywheel could in fact be anywhere as long as as there was a corresponding reference point. Its annoying that its not particularly easy to see or have the facility to drop a bolt on pin into to take the guess work out.
    This is furher complicated by the aperture in different gearboxes being in different places (016 for example) and that might be why TDC marks differ although the pin is in the same place.
    The extra pins were used for some ancient diagnostic machine which used a similar sensor to the crank/engine speed one. It pushed into the hole in the bellhousing and either read TDC or someother variable.

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    • S2central.net
      Retired OG Mod
      • Jul 2003
      • 16590
      • Country: Northern Ireland

      #47
      Originally posted by Error404


      You marked the position up wrong
      It's not as far away as you think. The G4 is located virtually in line with the two holed bosses on the bell housing approx 40 degrees from the timing window.
      I was out in the garage when you posted that - with palm in my face - here's my excuse. The engine is sitting vertical on a stand about 6ft from where I am working at the 'box so I picked the wrong hole in the bell housing for the G4 position.

      As soon as I pinged the last post I went out to measure again and realised I had totally forgotten the tilt of the engine so I was indeed using the wrong window - T.W.A.T

      New pics, diagrams and measurements to follow - still tricky to balance the G4 sensor on the flywheel mounted in position but it will be miles better than the last pics. D'oh !
      Paul Nugent
      Webmaster http://S2central.net
      Administrator http://S2forum.com

      1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
      2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
      2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

      Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

      There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't

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      • S2central.net
        Retired OG Mod
        • Jul 2003
        • 16590
        • Country: Northern Ireland

        #48
        OK - some sanity restored in this PDF attached with G4 pin sitting in the correct position. Summary is on last page where we can say the G4 pin travels approx 58 degrees past the sensor window until the TDC marks align. I still stand by the hexadecimal explanation as to why all the Audi docs are incorrect about this measurement - its a cool fluke more like, but now we have actual measurements.. and Dessie's timing light evidence with a VEMS application is pretty much bang on. I think we can put this one to bed now !
        Attached Files
        Paul Nugent
        Webmaster http://S2central.net
        Administrator http://S2forum.com

        1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
        2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
        2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

        Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

        There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't

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        • UrS4boy
          S2Forum Obsessed
          • Feb 2006
          • 11859
          • Country: Canada

          #49
          Originally posted by S2central.net
          The fly wheel bolts that you can see are the threaded ends which screw into the crankshaft. Look at the photo as if you are the crankshaft - turning clockwise, with the reference marks at approx 1 o'clock and the G4 sensor window at approx 4 o'clock..
          Then how do you know that you have the clutch/flywheel combo properly "timed"? You could be one spline out. 1/26 = 13.5 degrees

          From the photo you have posted, I don't think that "0" (TDC) is in the middle of the viewing window as per spec.

          If you measure from the TDC mark to the CENTRE of the G4 timing pin, how many degrees is it? More than 98. Maybe 102?



          RS2'd 93 UrS4 5 spd sedan
          94 UrS4 V8 6 spd manual avant

          Comment

          • S2central.net
            Retired OG Mod
            • Jul 2003
            • 16590
            • Country: Northern Ireland

            #50
            No need to bring clutch alignment into this Dave - thats an irrelevance. I lined up the TDC marks 100% with the flywheel in the bell housing - the spec is less about using the centre of the window but lining up the flywheel mark with the edge of the casting in that window. The 98 versus 102 degrees is easily explained...

            If you count teeth from centre of G4 lug round to TDC mark you get 38.25 teeth which is 102 degrees

            If you count teeth from the first +ve edge after an imaginary counter resets after the passing of G4 that yields 36.75 teeth which is 98 degrees (or 62 in hex !)
            Paul Nugent
            Webmaster http://S2central.net
            Administrator http://S2forum.com

            1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
            2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
            2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

            Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

            There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't

            Comment

            • UrS4boy
              S2Forum Obsessed
              • Feb 2006
              • 11859
              • Country: Canada

              #51
              Originally posted by S2central.net
              I lined up the TDC marks 100% with the flywheel in the bell housing - the spec is less about using the centre of the window but lining up the flywheel mark with the edge of the casting in that window.

              If you count teeth from the first +ve edge after an imaginary counter resets after the passing of G4 that yields 36.75 teeth which is 98 degrees (or 62 in hex !)
              The photo doesn't show that. It appears to be "off". Have to take your word on it. (I have spare engine but not a loose spare trans).

              You are obsessed about the 98 = 62 in hexidecimal thing. I am guessing that it is a red herring and just a coincidence. Nothing more.

              RS2'd 93 UrS4 5 spd sedan
              94 UrS4 V8 6 spd manual avant

              Comment

              • A1QSHIP
                S2Forum Maniac
                • Aug 2004
                • 975
                • Country: United States

                #52
                Um, Could the measurement not be made from the leading edge of the timing pin rather than the trailing edge? I believe that the trigger could be set from either leading(rising) or trailing(falling) edge of the sensor. How does that change your measurements?
                "Nulla tenaci invia est via"

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                • S2central.net
                  Retired OG Mod
                  • Jul 2003
                  • 16590
                  • Country: Northern Ireland

                  #53
                  Originally posted by UrS4boy
                  The photo doesn't show that. It appears to be "off". Have to take your word on it. (I have spare engine but not a loose spare trans).

                  You are obsessed about the 98 = 62 in hexidecimal thing. I am guessing that it is a red herring and just a coincidence. Nothing more.

                  Did you look at the last PDF I posted in the thread Dave ?
                  Page 3 shows the alignment pretty well - obviously i cannot push the flywheel far enough back that every sits as it would on a running engine, but that doesn't change the geometry.

                  I fully appreciate the 62 degrees in HEX started as pure comedy, but it works if you start counting teeth after G4 has passed !

                  What we can be absolutely certain of is the the factory docs are wrong about 62 degrees between the G4 pin and the TDC mark... Its clearly 102 degrees if you go by centre of G4.
                  Paul Nugent
                  Webmaster http://S2central.net
                  Administrator http://S2forum.com

                  1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
                  2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
                  2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

                  Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

                  There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't

                  Comment

                  • UrS4boy
                    S2Forum Obsessed
                    • Feb 2006
                    • 11859
                    • Country: Canada

                    #54
                    Originally posted by S2central.net
                    Did you look at the last PDF I posted in the thread Dave ?
                    Page 3 shows the alignment pretty well - obviously i cannot push the flywheel far enough back that every sits as it would on a running engine, but that doesn't change the geometry...What we can be absolutely certain of is the the factory docs are wrong about 62 degrees between the G4 pin and the TDC mark... Its clearly 102 degrees if you go by centre of G4.
                    I did see that but it might not have sunk in. Now it has. I have even posted a photo in my clutch slave post that would have shown that same "tab" BUT I didn't see it and I therefore didn't label it. In fact one of the label arrows goes OVER it.

                    102 degs is what I said in the beginning based on me counting teeth on a NIB AAN DMFW.

                    REFERENCE: Reason why fluid(s) might their way into the 01E transmission bell housing:


                    RS2'd 93 UrS4 5 spd sedan
                    94 UrS4 V8 6 spd manual avant

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