K26/27 #10 hotside

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  • elijahallens2
    S2Forum Addict
    • Aug 2004
    • 310

    #16
    Audiman, you are talking 500WHP right? I don't see any problem even with RS2 injectors getting 500CHP. Where does your current turbo come up to full boost now? I am a KKK turbo fan as well since both Garretts I had blew out after less than a year. I'm only running a k26#6 hot side but have the turbin clipped at 15 degrees to give it the top end of a #8 housing and full boost by 3200rpm but now with the tube header I will go to the #8 housing with same turbin and use the K29 compressor wheel with K27 machined cold side housing. This turbo has made over 600CHP on other cars but I'm only going for 500chp to keep it safe and to learn to drive the car better before spinning the tires off coming out of a turn in third gear .

    Elijah
    91 Audi Coupe Quattro- AAN engine transplant

    Comment

    • karlblues2
      S2Forum Addict
      • Jul 2004
      • 402
      • Home: England Current: Australia

      #17
      Off Topic ( sorry ) 500bhp eh Tom. That sounds nice. So supposing I need to get mine from a theoretical 350bhp, to say 420bhp, what do I have to change, and in what order? Is there a thread to point to what you have in yours now?

      Would love to see what times you could post down the 1/4 mile too
      Cheers
      Karl
      Oz
      Oct 93 build MY 94 ABY Kingfisher Blue Audi S2 with MD147 turbo :mischeif:u SOLD
      Audi 90 Quattro 20V 1989 7A
      Audi TTRS 2010 APR stage 2 +
      Triumph 675 Street Triple R

      Comment

      • Doug_RS2
        S2Forum Possessed
        • Jul 2003
        • 3847
        • Home: Scotland Current: England

        #18
        Tom got 3.6secs 0-60 and 11.9secs 1/4 mile with his car just now.

        When you go to approx 420bhp you are getting very close to the point you will need new rods(depending on turbos you will need to be careful on the torque) - it is a big step going past that so if you are, you want to decide before if 420bhp is enough or you really want 500bhp as it will be cheaper to go to that in the first step.

        The other thing is tuning it becomes more important - so you will not maximise what you have unless you get some hands on custom work.
        S2,RS2,S4 WB,RS4,S4 B8,RS6 C5,RS6 C6,R8

        Comment

        • Mihnea
          S2Forum Extremist
          • Jul 2003
          • 1288
          • Home: Belgium Current: United Kingdom

          #19
          Elijah, 500 cHP on RS2 injectors is fantasy, it can't be done, not even running them at 8 Bar fuel pressure as Hap did!!!! The RS2 injectors flow 360cc/min per injector at 3 Bar and 415cc/min at 4 Bar, which by regular and widely-accepted calculations is good for 415-420-ish crank HP and that's it.


          Additionally, K26#8 is good for max 450-460 cHP on a good EM (420 to 450 cHP on an RS2 EM tops), any more than that and you'll ruin your engine because of too high back pressure caused by that #8 hot side, if we're talking about the KKK one, the turbonetics K26#8 hot side knockoff is something radically different!!!


          HTH,


          Mihnea


          PS: YGM


          Originally posted by elijahallens2
          Audiman, you are talking 500WHP right? I don't see any problem even with RS2 injectors getting 500CHP. Where does your current turbo come up to full boost now? I am a KKK turbo fan as well since both Garretts I had blew out after less than a year. I'm only running a k26#6 hot side but have the turbin clipped at 15 degrees to give it the top end of a #8 housing and full boost by 3200rpm but now with the tube header I will go to the #8 housing with same turbin and use the K29 compressor wheel with K27 machined cold side housing. This turbo has made over 600CHP on other cars but I'm only going for 500chp to keep it safe and to learn to drive the car better before spinning the tires off coming out of a turn in third gear .

          Elijah
          '98 Silver Grey 2.7T S4, dual 2.75" turbo back exhaust with no cats, FMIC, BIG injectors, 10 Bar motorsport fuel pump, modded RS4 turbos, tubular exhaust manifolds, custom intakes, RS4 MAF, Bilstein PSS9, H&R ARBs, 19" BBS CH, custom remap, 511 BHP/505ft-lbs

          www.MRCTuning.com
          info@MRCTuning.com
          Workshop Directions

          Comment

          • Greg_S
            Administrator
            • Jul 2003
            • 12430
            • Country: United Kingdom

            #20
            so how does the turbonetics one compare to the KKK original?
            Greg

            S2Forum.com Administrator & Webmaster

            '93 Coupe with a few tweeks

            Comment

            • Jeffer
              S2Forum Fiend
              • Jul 2003
              • 2057
              • Country: Netherlands

              #21
              Hopefully next week I'm having my car on the dyno. (if the turbo doesn't go nuts)
              Then we know what power we can make with a k27#7 hotside. I will also make an updated spec list from my car. Dual HG worked out well on my car.
              Looks like it did pass the 500 hp mark.

              Cheers
              Last edited by Jeffer; 31 May 2005, 11:11.
              RS2 Black - stock 315 HP
              RS2 RS blau - stock 315 HP
              Sport Quattro - 1005 HP
              High Octane website

              Comment

              • Doug_RS2
                S2Forum Possessed
                • Jul 2003
                • 3847
                • Home: Scotland Current: England

                #22
                Did the HG go then?
                S2,RS2,S4 WB,RS4,S4 B8,RS6 C5,RS6 C6,R8

                Comment

                • karlblues2
                  S2Forum Addict
                  • Jul 2004
                  • 402
                  • Home: England Current: Australia

                  #23
                  Originally posted by Doug_RS2
                  Tom got 3.6secs 0-60 and 11.9secs 1/4 mile with his car just now.

                  When you go to approx 420bhp you are getting very close to the point you will need new rods(depending on turbos you will need to be careful on the torque) - it is a big step going past that so if you are, you want to decide before if 420bhp is enough or you really want 500bhp as it will be cheaper to go to that in the first step.

                  The other thing is tuning it becomes more important - so you will not maximise what you have unless you get some hands on custom work.
                  Thanks Doug, as ever, I appreciate your responses mate Love to know a list of things to buy though, so I can prioritise between feeding the kids and my addiction
                  Cheers
                  Karl
                  Oct 93 build MY 94 ABY Kingfisher Blue Audi S2 with MD147 turbo :mischeif:u SOLD
                  Audi 90 Quattro 20V 1989 7A
                  Audi TTRS 2010 APR stage 2 +
                  Triumph 675 Street Triple R

                  Comment

                  • Billman
                    S2Forum Freak
                    • Nov 2004
                    • 4129

                    #24
                    The RS2 ex manifold is too small for over 450 BHP? Gow does the Turbonetics K26/8 compare to the KKK one?
                    Go Holset or Go RS4

                    Comment

                    • Doug_RS2
                      S2Forum Possessed
                      • Jul 2003
                      • 3847
                      • Home: Scotland Current: England

                      #25
                      RS2 won't do much more than 450bhp.

                      For big power you need to do the bottom end which means, new rods, custom pistons (or machined stock pistons for lower CR), probably a rebore, new shells all round, alloy flywheel with stong clutch and get all that balanced.

                      You should get some headwork done to clean it all up and get a bit better flow.

                      You will need a bigger IC which means a front intake manifold would make the plumbing easier.

                      A tubular EM and obviously a custom DP to go with that. A big turbo.

                      Then you have custom oil and water lines to the turbo. Custom silicon boost hoses to plumb everything in.

                      Move the MAF to pressure side (eaier to fit in) Mafs are still holding up on several cars with 500bhp ish power.

                      I would also put an RS2 water pump in (I haven't but should have) as it should pump the water round quicker and heat management is starting to get critical at these power levels.

                      Oil Catch Tank will be required.

                      Big injectors.

                      That is all I can think of just now.

                      HTH
                      S2,RS2,S4 WB,RS4,S4 B8,RS6 C5,RS6 C6,R8

                      Comment

                      • AudiS2Au
                        S2Forum Buff
                        • Aug 2003
                        • 40

                        #26
                        Karl - add getting someone to Oz to map it!

                        Comment

                        • Doug_RS2
                          S2Forum Possessed
                          • Jul 2003
                          • 3847
                          • Home: Scotland Current: England

                          #27
                          Get a big group of 1.8T and TDIs together for a group session and a mapper might travel to you.

                          Originally posted by AudiS2Au
                          Karl - add getting someone to Oz to map it!
                          S2,RS2,S4 WB,RS4,S4 B8,RS6 C5,RS6 C6,R8

                          Comment

                          • AudiS2Au
                            S2Forum Buff
                            • Aug 2003
                            • 40

                            #28
                            Been trying - need to carefully convince some people of the virtues of custom mapping when there are a myriad of local distributors of generic Wett, APR, GIAC, Revo, etc etc chipsets. TDIs have never been so popular down here for some reason. But there is certainly a good deal of 1.8T owners.

                            Call me lazy, but I just don't have the energy to start another chapter of 'my chip is better than your chip wars' .. people take stuff too personal .. Anyway might talk to you guys about getting some fact to help ... Karl .. your thoughts?

                            But Tom - err sorry, I'll give you back your big mutha turbo thread now... sorry!

                            Originally posted by Doug_RS2
                            Get a big group of 1.8T and TDIs together for a group session and a mapper might travel to you.
                            Last edited by AudiS2Au; 31 May 2005, 12:06. Reason: err stolen post!

                            Comment

                            • elijahallens2
                              S2Forum Addict
                              • Aug 2004
                              • 310

                              #29
                              Mihnea,
                              I don't get it about the RS2 injectors. I know the flow rates are low compared to some of the water spickets people are using but there are several urs4/6 people that have dynoed there cars and have seen 380+WHP using RS2 injectors and RS2 EM's. Doesn't 380WHP equal close to 500chp?
                              As for the K26 #8 hot side, if the fins are clipped at 15 degrees I have seen several porsche guys putting down 550-600whp using a K27/29 cold side with this setup. I really need to get my egt meter hooked up so I can see whats going on. I must be close to blowing the engine running a #6 hot side to 7000rpm at 25psi but man does it feel good .

                              Elijah


                              Originally posted by Mihnea
                              Elijah, 500 cHP on RS2 injectors is fantasy, it can't be done, not even running them at 8 Bar fuel pressure as Hap did!!!! The RS2 injectors flow 360cc/min per injector at 3 Bar and 415cc/min at 4 Bar, which by regular and widely-accepted calculations is good for 415-420-ish crank HP and that's it.


                              Additionally, K26#8 is good for max 450-460 cHP on a good EM (420 to 450 cHP on an RS2 EM tops), any more than that and you'll ruin your engine because of too high back pressure caused by that #8 hot side, if we're talking about the KKK one, the turbonetics K26#8 hot side knockoff is something radically different!!!


                              HTH,


                              Mihnea


                              PS: YGM
                              91 Audi Coupe Quattro- AAN engine transplant

                              Comment

                              • Doug_RS2
                                S2Forum Possessed
                                • Jul 2003
                                • 3847
                                • Home: Scotland Current: England

                                #30
                                Originally posted by elijahallens2
                                Mihnea,
                                I don't get it about the RS2 injectors. I know the flow rates are low compared to some of the water spickets people are using but there are several urs4/6 people that have dynoed there cars and have seen 380+WHP using RS2 injectors and RS2 EM's. Doesn't 380WHP equal close to 500chp?
                                US dynos have some strange correction factors for altitude and temperatures (we don't get much altitude or temperature here ). If you switch those factors off then you get more accurate figures. The correction factors are fine if you have a basic ecu that controls timing, boost and fuel but not much else. Our cars ECUs are already correcting for these factors.

                                What turbos were these cars running? What power levels do full RS2 specced cars do - that is probably a good indication of correction factors.
                                S2,RS2,S4 WB,RS4,S4 B8,RS6 C5,RS6 C6,R8

                                Comment

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