Stabilizer, ARB (anti-roll / sway bar(s)) 893411309B vs 895411309

[pfi]

Anyone got any experience with old-style stabi 893411309B vs new-style 895411309 ?
what's "best" ?

893411309B :
893411309B.jpg

895411309 :
895411309.jpg

[newsh]

The old style wears the bushes out quicker than the new style droplinks

[pfi]

ok, thnx, but bushes cost is a fraction of droplinks ...
more interested in "behaviour", road feeling, specially on narrow curved roads as we have plenty of here in norway

[newsh]

Well I have both but old style on Ur quattro type 85 with Bilstein and new style on S2 Coupe with Koni so not really a fair comparison but Ur quattro feels much lighter and more direct steering than S2
Ur quattro has original very strong ARB, S2 has RS2 ARB.

[pfi]

ok
might go for the old style then, light and direct sounds great
( got yellow adjustable Koni's )
but, Your "Ur quattro has very strong ARB" ...
Not a std 26mm ?

I look for a "best" setup for a s2 Coupe (narrow / curved roads)
My options ARB's are :
- 895411309 : std 26 mm s2
- 893411309B : std 26 mm "old-style"
- 28mm RS2
I currently have std s2 (895411309) but have possibility to buy both 893411309B and RS2 (expensive) ...

[newsh]

My s2 has RS2 bar on front and Whiteline on rear. I think this is a good setup. Stock springs for our terrible roads here in Southeast UK.
The UrQ is stock WR setup but with Bilsteins. Not measured it but remember it looks heavy, stiffer than a stock S2 for sure. Some guys on here have used the S2 front bar on the rear, makes the car oversteer.

[pfi]

Thnx for sharing info !
I currently have std s2 front ARB and rear Whiteline (18mm), stock springs F/B and Yellow Koni front, std shocks rear.
Feeling a bit of oversteer so mby need a stiffer front ARB ?
Best opt mby RS2 as You have, but they doesn't "grow on trees" so very expensive ...

Any chance of measuring the dia on the ARB on Your UrQ ?

[newsh]

Any chance of measuring the dia on the ARB on Your UrQ ?

26mm, but looking at the two setups, I would say the side arms are shorter on the UrQ so it will actually be stiffer than a 26mm S2 bar.

[K Simmonds]

I've posted this info before but I'll put it here again, after extensive testing with differnt springs inc H&R and various wheels and tyres options I found best alround set up for an S2 Coupe as follows.


The RS2 front ARB is well worth fittting if you can find a good one rust frree one, light surfave rust isn't a problem, just paint it with Por15 or the like but heavy corrosion will comprimise it's strength.

Whiteline rears are also great, I had one on the back of my S2 Coupe.. I would fit one to my RS2 but want to preserve that cars as originallity as well as I can manage.

Yeah, stock springs is the order of the day in the UK at least as our roads are awful. The orginal S2 or 7A sports pack as well as well as the stock Avant/ RS2 springs don't seem to snap, I've never had to replace one anyway!

Ideally you want Koni dampers set a couple of clicks off max but the the OE ones would also be just fine. Bilsien B6 are also a good option

Stock bump stops and gaiters

The best quiltiy stock top monts you can find, preferably the sligjhtly harder onesall round. I give the bearings a good squrt with grease from a tin using the straw prior to instalation as they often come with very little grease. Fit a set of mount savers on the front and they would't do an harm fiiting then to the back as well though that not really required.

Polybushes everywhere, inc the subframe's..

Uprated front track adjusters with a 17mm nut in the midlde, installed with lashings of copper grease.

After trying a few sets of rims I went back to the stock 16" 3B wheels as I like the look of them and found the extra bit of side wall gave a bit more proteection from bumps. I simply used good quaity tyres and replaced them often as I was runing 380+bhp

That said 17" wheels with either 215/45 or 225/45 tyres are also just fine and give onemuch more space for bigger brake options on the front. I really don't see any point in fitting larger rear brakes as they do very little work, just service the calipers and use it for what they're rearly designed for, the hand brake.

Personly I use a 215/45 on a 7J wheel and 225/45 on an 8J wheel, though it'll also work fine the other way around.

The factory camber has very wide tollerances, go for as close to max negative camber all arond with as much positive castorr on the front as acheivable with as close to stock toe as you can get.

When fitting new spings or dampers I leave the strut bolts half a turn off loose, position a jack with a block of wood on it under the brake disc or hub flange and put a enough force on it to pre load the strut /bearing housing assembly, before finally pinching up the bolts to the speifed torque. By rights these bolts should always be replaced, if they're threaded all the way one can get awy with reuing the a couple of times, if they have a shank they must be replaced every time.

Early 3B's have 12mm bolts and will be shancked, The later cars inc the RS2 all use the same 14mm bolts, nuts and washers so whilst it's apart I always drill the strut and bearing housing out to 14.5mm to accept the later type bolts and fixings which alway seem to come fully threaded. Always replace the nuts as their nylock and single use.

This has two advantages, first if you need to take it appart again one can refit everything in the same location once pre loaded with a jack avoiding having to visit whoever you use to do the the tracking work, I use a motorsport place in Bristol as they really take their time then test drive the car quickly before checking to ensure everytjing is still within spec. Most tyre places are terrible, so try and find some with good kit who know how to use it.

It also buys you an extra 0.5 degrees of negative camber so the ball joint studs are very close to the middle of their range of adjustment when you've 1.2 degrees of negative camber. That is unless your car is bent. Having the the ball joint studs close the the center means you can get a little more positive castor on the front. Don't worry if this go's into the red on the machine. Aim to get it close as you can each side, this applies to all the settings.

The 17mm nuts for the front ball joints are single use as they have a serated flange, so no washers under any circumstances should be be found there. The bottom of the ball joint needs to be fairly clean before insalling new nut's I use a wire brush in a drill, if your only disturbing these nuts take one off clean that area and refit the old before moving on ntto the next one. I do each one at a time so the camber does't slip.

These nuts are safty critical and must be replaced, your okay tweeking the old ones back just to get to your tracking place but take six new ones along with you as they often don't have them in stock

The OE 17mm nuts are now NLA, however the ones from an 8L platform car are identical just with a 16mm head instead of 17mm, I now always use these for the job, they're readily avaiable from TPS and cheap, I always have six in stock.

[pfi]

26mm, but looking at the two setups, I would say the side arms are shorter on the UrQ so it will actually be stiffer than a 26mm S2 bar.

Thnx !
I agree, 26mm old-style has shorter "arms" and this should give a stiffer effect than a 26mm s2 ARB, mby also more than a 28mm RS2 ?
The theory is confirmed by the rear WhiteLine, it has three "settings", stiffest when closest to "main bar".
May get an 26mm old-style for ~ €80, and, 28mm RS2 for ~ €400, both in mint condition, think I'll go for the 26mm old-style ...

[pfi]

@K Simmonds
Thnx alot for plenty of valuable info !
Need a some time to absorb it all ... but,
in Your post You write : "The factory camber has very wide tollerances, go for as close to max negative camber all arond with as much positive castorr on the front as acheivable with as close to stock toe as you can get."
Is it possible to do castor adjustments w/o any extra/non-std parts ?

[K Simmonds]

@K Simmonds
Thnx alot for plenty of valuable info !
Need a some time to absorb it all ... but,
in Your post You write : "The factory camber has very wide tollerances, go for as close to max negative camber all arond with as much positive castorr on the front as acheivable with as close to stock toe as you can get."
Is it possible to do castor adjustments w/o any extra/non-std parts ?

No Problem, and if you want the exact settings I had my S2 Coupe on I'll find the print out as I still have the service history for reference.

I tend to feel a bit rough some mornings so taking the time to type up a load of info helps take my mind off it and I like to help other members where I can, this forum was an absolute fountain of ideas and information before dam Facebook seemed to reduce the amount of active users by a huge amount.

To get a sizeable amount of extra positive castor one use's solid alloy custom top mounts that move the top of the strut back, someone on here did make them but I can't recall who.

You can't get a lot more adjusment than how I already described using the stock parts, but there is half a degree or so to be had.

[K Simmonds]

Here's the factory manual data for a 20V CQ, which is also relevant to S2 Coupe's.

Sent from my SM-A115F using Tapatalk

[K Simmonds]

Thought I should make clear the info above use minutes as the unit of measurement. So 50' +/- 30 is one degree and 20 minutes.

I'm sure some people know that already but to some folk it won't make any sense.

[pfi]

Early 3B's have 12mm bolts and will be shancked, The later cars inc the RS2 all use the same 14mm bolts, nuts and washers so whilst it's apart I always drill the strut and bearing housing out to 14.5mm to accept the later type bolts and fixings which alway seem to come fully threaded. Always replace the nuts as their nylock and single use.

This has two advantages, first if you need to take it appart again one can refit everything in the same location once pre loaded with a jack avoiding having to visit whoever you use to do the the tracking work, I use a motorsport place in Bristol as they really take their time then test drive the car quickly before checking to ensure everytjing is still within spec. Most tyre places are terrible, so try and find some with good kit who know how to use it.

Sure about this ?
Is the bearing housing thickness the same for 12 and 14 mm bolts ?
If not it may be a "risky business" ...
Is a thread on this subject on the forum somewhere, but not able to find it :0