S2 Avant Hillclimb/Track suspension settings

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  • raymor
    S2Forum Maniac
    • Sep 2003
    • 597
    • Country: Scotland

    #16
    maRs2, cheers for that. The rear setting is interesting and your set-up at the rear is very similar to mine. I was going to start with -0.5 at the rear, but if your not seeing any problems with that, I can go straight to -1 camber.

    I've got 15mm spacers at the front: It does two things for me. It lets the orignal 16" Avus fit over the 323mm discs with ease and increases the front track by 30mm

    I'm really eager to see exactly how the car weighs on the corner weight scales too...

    I might try and get that done before the weekend.
    1997 A6 (C4)Q TDi http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=291269 - Sold
    1987 CQ85RS
    1994 S2 Avant- Gone
    1991 V8 -Gone, but lives on in the TDi and CQ

    Fintray Hillclimb - 33.20s
    Doune Hillclimb - 55.02s
    Forrestburn Hillclimb - 52.61

    Comment

    • Rusty
      Super Moderator
      • Jun 2004
      • 18953
      • Country: United Kingdom

      #17
      Originally posted by raymor
      I'm really eager to see exactly how the car weighs on the corner weight scales too...
      A lot (Lloyd posted something like 950kg front, 600kg rear with an RS2).
      Cheers'en, AndyC
      1994 ABY Coupe - Projekt Alpinweiss

      Comment

      • raymor
        S2Forum Maniac
        • Sep 2003
        • 597
        • Country: Scotland

        #18
        The weights come out like this...

        Wet weight with spare - no driver
        Attached Files
        1997 A6 (C4)Q TDi http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=291269 - Sold
        1987 CQ85RS
        1994 S2 Avant- Gone
        1991 V8 -Gone, but lives on in the TDi and CQ

        Fintray Hillclimb - 33.20s
        Doune Hillclimb - 55.02s
        Forrestburn Hillclimb - 52.61

        Comment

        • raymor
          S2Forum Maniac
          • Sep 2003
          • 597
          • Country: Scotland

          #19
          Percentages - Left -Right, Front - Rear and Cross (Left Front to Right Rear etc)
          Attached Files
          1997 A6 (C4)Q TDi http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=291269 - Sold
          1987 CQ85RS
          1994 S2 Avant- Gone
          1991 V8 -Gone, but lives on in the TDi and CQ

          Fintray Hillclimb - 33.20s
          Doune Hillclimb - 55.02s
          Forrestburn Hillclimb - 52.61

          Comment

          • raymor
            S2Forum Maniac
            • Sep 2003
            • 597
            • Country: Scotland

            #20
            So,

            56% of the total weight is over the front axle and 44% rear, so not completely hideous weight distribution.

            The overall weight does make it a bit of a porker though, removing the easy to move interior bits, rear seats/front passenger seat, that might liberate around 40Kgs and if I replace the drivers seat with one of the OMP fibreglass ones I have in the loft for the Imp, it might save another 10Kgs.

            So best case power to weight ratio as of the last RR session is 223/tonne (the Imp will be around 400/tonne). But it's plenty enough to frighten me I'm sure
            1997 A6 (C4)Q TDi http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=291269 - Sold
            1987 CQ85RS
            1994 S2 Avant- Gone
            1991 V8 -Gone, but lives on in the TDi and CQ

            Fintray Hillclimb - 33.20s
            Doune Hillclimb - 55.02s
            Forrestburn Hillclimb - 52.61

            Comment

            • Rusty
              Super Moderator
              • Jun 2004
              • 18953
              • Country: United Kingdom

              #21
              That compares favouribly with the 1560kg quoted on S2Central.net. Weight distribution isn't too awful either.
              Cheers'en, AndyC
              1994 ABY Coupe - Projekt Alpinweiss

              Comment

              • maRS2
                S2Forum Addict
                • Oct 2003
                • 366
                • Home: France Current: Thailand

                #22
                his your care original on weight?
                aircon,spare wheel, aux rad, exhaust,wheel......
                RS2 chip by mihnea,PKM short IM, forge dump valve, 3" custom stainless exhaust, 18"X8" Porsche 996 rims, conti contact 245/35 Front 225/40 Rear, QR sport top mount, Powerflex bushes, aloy sub frame bushes, neuspeed 19mm RARB,Hard tranny mount, V8 torsen on RS2

                Comment

                • Bram
                  S2Forum Fiend
                  • Aug 2006
                  • 2582
                  • Country: Netherlands

                  #23
                  You should involve your own weight to set it up properly I guess? Otherwise it makes no sense in balancing the car.

                  Comment

                  • raymor
                    S2Forum Maniac
                    • Sep 2003
                    • 597
                    • Country: Scotland

                    #24
                    I did do settings with me in the car -

                    They came out at

                    LF 426 RF 484

                    LR 352 RR 366

                    Total 1628 - with spare wheel on board - need to stop scoffing the buns and put some more miles in

                    The car never had aircon, does not have Aux rad, CATS and the readings are without a spare on board.

                    The only way to get the true benefit is to fit adjustable suspension. The rear avant dampers could be modified to provide adjustability - I don't think it'd be overly difficult and the front could be converted using the Quattronics kit.

                    Food for thought, but the car is still required for towing and holiday duties - so I can't go too far
                    Last edited by raymor; 22 April 2008, 20:40.
                    1997 A6 (C4)Q TDi http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=291269 - Sold
                    1987 CQ85RS
                    1994 S2 Avant- Gone
                    1991 V8 -Gone, but lives on in the TDi and CQ

                    Fintray Hillclimb - 33.20s
                    Doune Hillclimb - 55.02s
                    Forrestburn Hillclimb - 52.61

                    Comment

                    • S2central.net
                      Retired OG Mod
                      • Jul 2003
                      • 16590
                      • Country: Northern Ireland

                      #25
                      Raymond - intersting idea... Horsing an Avant up and down a hillclimb track. Heheh

                      I'd go straight for -1 on the camber. I keep meaning to try these things more on my Coupe but you know how big a PITA it is without the right gear.

                      The funky sized tyre profile is also worth a try even though the weight distribution isn't so horrific. Our generation of quattro has inherent tendency for understeer so you can counteract that with one or more things -

                      - Torsen rear diff (I know you have)
                      - Thinner tyres at rear
                      - Stiffer rear end (springs and/or ARBs)

                      Only way to find best mix is to experiment. Gotta say that adjustable suspenders are going to be a great way to give you options and swap between road and track settings if required.

                      Another to think about - in track/hillclimb mode - is a balance bar / control for the brakes. Assume you have something beefy up front, but if you have the rears upgraded as per 8E0 300m vented stylee, then having control of the brake balance as you play with tyre and suspension options could be very useful.

                      Paul
                      Paul Nugent
                      Webmaster http://S2central.net
                      Administrator http://S2forum.com

                      1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
                      2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
                      2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

                      Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

                      There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't

                      Comment

                      • Rusty
                        Super Moderator
                        • Jun 2004
                        • 18953
                        • Country: United Kingdom

                        #26
                        I'm really interested in a V8 torsen again now... Suppose it's between H&R springs or a torsen Car handles OK on standard springs but it's a bit soft for really going hard, makes things a bit more predictable though and works well in the wet and for daily driving. Shame that the RS2 FARB is £250 Wonder what happened to the Whiteline front bar project...

                        Will have to try the diff lock on the next time I get some space and a damp day... :mischeif: Hope it doesn't work otherwise I might end up getting carried away
                        Cheers'en, AndyC
                        1994 ABY Coupe - Projekt Alpinweiss

                        Comment

                        • raymor
                          S2Forum Maniac
                          • Sep 2003
                          • 597
                          • Country: Scotland

                          #27
                          Originally posted by S2central.net
                          Raymond - intersting idea... Horsing an Avant up and down a hillclimb track. Heheh
                          The more I check out the videos of the climbs I'm gonna do - the more I'm thinking I've lost the plot - but there's only one way to find out!

                          You're right, the only way to get some decent data and an understanding of what's truly happening is to do some testing.

                          I've widened the track at the front by keeping the 15mm spacers I've got for the S8Avus, but I could probably go another 5mm each side, the wider front track should offset some understeer.

                          I've got a digital inclinomenter that I can measure the camber at the hub face, but I'll need to make something up (or buy )to measure castor. Then record all the data. Need to get the remaining niggles sorted out and get moving!

                          I'm looking forward to learning a lot
                          1997 A6 (C4)Q TDi http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=291269 - Sold
                          1987 CQ85RS
                          1994 S2 Avant- Gone
                          1991 V8 -Gone, but lives on in the TDi and CQ

                          Fintray Hillclimb - 33.20s
                          Doune Hillclimb - 55.02s
                          Forrestburn Hillclimb - 52.61

                          Comment

                          • stiglet
                            S2Forum Extremist
                            • Aug 2007
                            • 1264
                            • Country: United Kingdom

                            #28
                            This will be very interesting to see what spring/ARB combo's work best. Is all the suspension standard atm? If so i'm impressed with the cross weight ratio

                            Andy - i emailed whitline a while back about the front ARB and their response was;

                            "At this stage there is no indication if we may have a front bar in the future"

                            so.....

                            They do an adjustable for the rear, what do you reckon would be best matched for the front? RS2??

                            Comment

                            • Rusty
                              Super Moderator
                              • Jun 2004
                              • 18953
                              • Country: United Kingdom

                              #29
                              Nah, Whiteline is for girls I'm running 25mm rear and 26 front and it's nice and aggressive, if I go for H&R springs I might even go 26/26.

                              RS2 28mm front, S2 26mm rear is the way forward with standard springs, ask Mark H Mild oversteer off the power, nice and neutral on the power.
                              Cheers'en, AndyC
                              1994 ABY Coupe - Projekt Alpinweiss

                              Comment

                              • Corey
                                Banned
                                • Sep 2003
                                • 2793
                                • Country: United Kingdom

                                #30
                                Originally posted by Andy_Casey
                                Wonder what happened to the Whiteline front bar project...
                                Still on going. Whiteline have been very slow (even by our standards) due to them relocting the mani factory but the project is still live and will bare fruit soon.
                                Corey
                                01636 822288

                                Comment

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