Suspension upgrade time.. opinions??

[TimE-J]

Right the time has come that my S2 really needs a full suspension overhaul.

As far as I know at the moment it has a set of koni inserts and H&R springs and tbh there crap there abit soft and bouncy. Whether this is down to other worn components im not sure as I know the front arm bushes aren't the best.

All I really want to know are peoples opinions and past experiences with different bushes and suspension set ups.

Ideally I do want a GOOD handling car as most of my previous cars have had polybush suspension of some sort and coilovers.

1st: What is the best suspension strut assembly to use i.e shocks/springs + makes or coilovers. Im not to fussed about price but i do think that new KW v3 are too pricey. Also I am willing to loose ride comfort, Id rather a hard ride than one that feels loose like it does now. Also if you could add good spring weights then that would be helpful.

2nd: What bushes should I replace the suspension arm front and rear bushes with, standard, poly or other?

3rd: What bushes are best to replace the subframe bushes with, standard, some sort of poly (if available) or ally bushes? I have looked at 034 ally bushes and also VRS bushes and the grading is alot softer grade of ally than the 034 bushes, has anyone used these with good results?

4th: What top mounts are the best to use with either suspension set up, I understand that these to go with a regular occurrence.

5th: What anti roll bar upgrades are worth doing, front or rear? I understand that the whiteline rear can take awhile to arrive but is it worth the wait?

6th: Engine and gearbox mounts... I already have the rear diff side bushes and a poly rear diff mount ready to go. Is going standard eng/trans mounts still a good option?
and what front snub mounts are available on the market either standard or other.

Any help would be more than welcome!

Tim.

[Error404]

all of these points have been covered plenty on the forum

all depends - what you want to use the car for?

[TimE-J]

the only real problem ive found with going through the forum is people are abit vague with what they acctually think with the suspension set ups, i couldnt find a definite answer really towards coilovers. Are the KW v1 a good alround coilover?

The car is mainly used for road use but also i will be doing a few track days as the track is only 10 miles from my house.

Tim.

[Error404]

i guess mostly becasue few people have tried multiple set-ups maybe?

Poly bushes are available for wishbones and subframes, Bambirdge supplies Delrin tie rod bushes for the front and rear.
Ally is a bit harsh for road use IMHO, but horses for courses.
034 street and track density mounts are worth a look for engine, gearbox and diff mounts.
Topmounts are a problem. Compbrake make ally replacements but the bearings are underspecced by all accounts.
Meyle make uprated versions of the OEM units, as do 034. Rusty keeps promising something is in the pipeline from K24R
Also read his thread on FARB on the rear mod which offers cheaper and stiffer options than the whiteline. RS2 is the only upgrade I know of for the front, pricey and can increase understeer.
Koni & H&R is a good combo, definately shouldn't be soft and bouncy - perhaps your inserts are knackered?

I run most of the above in addition to some custom chassis bracing and the car handles well. Cannot comment on coilovers as I have no experience of them on these cars

HTH
Alex

[Zoig]

I'd go for ally subframe bushes. Friend of mine has tried them on ABY Coupe and 90q, no difference in noise or in normal use. But it makes the front and rear more planted under faster driving as the subrfames aren't moving around anymore.

I'm waiting for front ally subframe bushes for my UrS6, I have the rears waiting to be installed but I want to do it in one go.

[bambridge]

What ever way you go, heres a few of the parts i can supply you with

Solid Ally Sub-frame bushes( hard black anodised)
Delrin Front and Rear inner tie rod bushes
Track Spec Engine/Gearbox/Tranny Mounts
(looking at doing a softer Street version)

Cheers

Kev

[TimE-J]

Cheers for all the help guys!

@ Kev, any chance you could pm me the prices for the above items that you list.

@ Error, do you know were the poly bush subframe bushes are available as I cant seem to find them at powerflex

Cheers

Tim.

[Rusty]

If you go coilover then you can change springs to match your requirements / expectations. HnRs are a little soft initially but are OK when loaded, they're more of a 'looks' upgrade than anything else IMO.

In terms of coilover spring rates, 400lb/in is a good starting point, KW use 400lb Fr and 360lb Rr. Most who have chosen spring rates seem to like stiffer rears, say 400/450 and for track and autoX use, 600/650 seems to be more like it, but that's not sensible on the road...

The thing is that a stock sprung car with decent damping and all new OE stuff is better on the road for most situations than a bouncy racer, it's only if you're going to be doing track days that you want to start going mad. Just look at Sonic's recent thread on his car, it's all tuned for track days and is a bit OTT on the road! All that for several £k

You could upgrade to Billys on the HnRs or wind the Konis FT (assuming they're adjustable) and see how that does with a full chassis overhaul.

Solid subframe, poly or delrin lower arm and new ball joints, replacement TRE bushes etc. are all going to help.

ARB wise, that depends on what you're doing with the rest of the car. I have a 25mm B4 FARB on the rear, with a stock front and the same HnR and Koni setup (with the dampers et 0.5 turns from fully stiff though). On the road the ARB makes response far superior in all situations with only the tightest corners making it bounce a little but still give much better steering response than stock. On track it's a little aggressive on road tyres but on a recent outing on track rubber, I could go more aggressive still and have a super pointy S2, a rarity indeed! Check out the sticky in the chassis section for options, Error's B3 setup is neater than the B4 and provides some proper stiff action and would suit an RS2 FARB well for most tastes.

Better decide where you want to use the car and then you'll get the feedback you want.

Coilover wise, I don't think many bother, due to expense and supply, it's more of a track option than anything else.

I will be speaking to a suspension manufacturer soon about coupe uprated springs to my own spec, need to get them some stock springs as a starter for 10.

[TimE-J]

Thanks for the info andy, like I said before the car will mostly be used for road with maybe a few track trips through the year.
Like Alex mentioned about tired suspension I think he is right as when I first worked on my s2 13 months before I bought it I remember it being much tighter and sharper on the road.

What sort of price has every one else payed for koni's and h&r's?

[Rusty]

For that type of use, you could do a lot worse than go for some new stock springs and some uprated dampers and ARBs, all combined with whatever suspension bushes you decide. The car will be supple enough for use on bumpy B roads but corner well during road use and the dampers improve things a bit too, keeping body movement in check. On track it will roll but be predictable and controlled and with the right RARB, nice and pointy too - I ran like this on the 'ring, Combe, Donington and many Wales thrashes and it was a good compromise.

I think overall you don't really need coilovers but hey, if you want them then why not, perhaps drop the spring rates into the 300s to make things a little less bouncy though.

[TimE-J]

Thanks for that, think I'll now look into just replacing my koni's and h&rs. Does anyone know were to get poly subframe bushes?

Andy, do you still have some uprated snub mounts + brackets?

Also what's the difference between the green and the blue standard top mounts?

Like I've said in previous posts I dont mind having a solid ride as most of my previous cars have had solid coilovers so not too fussed about stiffness.

[Rusty]

Superflex do subframe bushes.

Top mount wise, you can go for Pro Mounts (like I was running on the front), they are stock mounts that are then re-worked to include a spherical bearing. I have aset of these I might sell on, they're new. Solid mounts are another option and I will be sorting something out very soon with my offset ones with monster bnearings and a rear strut brace incorporated.

I have a bracket but no snub bushes as yet, been a bit of a manufacturing delay on them. The bracket is designed to work with a stock bush though so you can upgrade at a later date if you like.

PM me

[Kliminati456]

What ever way you go, heres a few of the parts i can supply you with

Solid Ally Sub-frame bushes( hard black anodised)
Delrin Front and Rear inner tie rod bushes
Track Spec Engine/Gearbox/Tranny Mounts
(looking at doing a softer Street version)

Cheers

Kev

Bambridge I have seen your name and your quality work mentioned several times around the forum. I did a search and found info on the tie rod bushes, but I could not find any info on the ally subframe bushes or track spec mounts. Would you mind posting some pictures and info on these items? if so it would be appreciated.

In terms of coilover spring rates, 400lb/in is a good starting point, KW use 400lb Fr and 360lb Rr. Most who have chosen spring rates seem to like stiffer rears, say 400/450 and for track and autoX use, 600/650 seems to be more like it, but that's not sensible on the road...

I have heard of people swapping the springs front to back and back to front on the KWs. Some people actually swear by it.

Solid mounts are another option and I will be sorting something out very soon with my offset ones with monster bearings and a rear strut brace incorporated.

hmmmm very interested in these Rusty. More info please! Pics?

[bambridge]

[QUOTE=Kliminati456;541351]Bambridge I have seen your name and your quality work mentioned several times around the forum. I did a search and found info on the tie rod bushes, but I could not find any info on the ally subframe bushes or track spec mounts. Would you mind posting some pictures and info on these items? if so it would be appreciated.

Few photos of the inner tie rod bushes/17mm Hex adjuster rods, track spec engine/gearbox mounts and solid ally sub-frame bushes

Cheers

Kev