Extended ball joints for lowered suspension?

[stiglet]

Bored at work, got thinking about my suspension setup. Wandering what more I can do to further improve the handling besides ARBs and coilovers.

One thing has really been bugging me for a while since I lowered the Coupe. The fact that, in simple terms, my geometry is all messed up. It definately handles better since lowering but it's obvious there are some serious flaws as a result. For example, i'm 70% sure the outside wheels are actually gaining positive camber when I corner hard, which is the opposite of ideal That plus the body roll means i'm running on the rims!

If I owned a scooby doo or an MR2, no problem. I simply buy some specialy extended ball joints which kinda look like this and hey presto my wishbones are back at the angle they were supposed to be before i messed around with it.

Anyone heard of anything like this for the S2 suspension? How hard would it be to fabricate something like this? Or am I thinking too much?

[Keeper of The Kitten]

Only thing I'd say against that is the bigger offset load on the track rod end.

(edit: and the bigger offset load on the lower balljoint end)

The better solution is a strut with the wheel bearing housing raised, but that's expensive.

[Rusty]

Not heard of that but I'm sure that if you had some tubular wishbones made up then that would enable you to massage out the problem!

[Keeper of The Kitten]

You'd still need to extend the ball joint positions downwards to alter the angle from the inboard to the outboard ends.

[stiglet]

Yeah thats right. It's easier just to keep the standard wishbones although that would be an awesome excuse for tubular wishbones

I'm gonna ask around but the more i think about the more i reckon it's probably excessive.

[Rusty]

Nah, you don't need a car that handles! You're already too fast

[aelred]

I had some extensions made to lower the wishbone from the strut a few years back as for the reason above mentioned, it did work but I had a few snap off due to the addional loads, you have to be careful how they are made and what material. I do not know how far you want to go and how long but i can tell you that mine were about 2" long. I would advise to have new wishbones made to cater for it and I would move away from any extentions. You have to consider the position of the steering and you should also lower them by similar amount

[aelred]

I correct myself, I might be wrong on the extentions snapping if memory serve me right it was the lug where the pinch bolt goes through that snapped, this is the weak part.

[Keeper of The Kitten]

Or move the inboard point upward...

The thing to understand is that new wishbones with the same centre-to-centre distance, will not change the position of the joints up or down. That can only be done on the strut.

[anton]

we've had many convosations about this and i totally agree, but i didnt think it was possible, actually never thought of looking into extended ball joints...good idea, i have found this website...http://www.pmwltd.com/products.php....scroll down to volkswagen ball joint extender and bobs your uncle......mine will be on order within the month...

P.S. they look like this...

Ant

[anton]

found these images on the motorgeek forum when searching for the same thing:



and for what the differance in in-corner....


of course these are all copied from the thread over there found here

[stiglet]

Aelred - Did you notice any handling difference with the extensions? How much was your car lowered?

Cheers Anton i'll give it a gander...

[aelred]

Extensions

They were close to 2" so quite a lot. As above mentioned really the way to go if possible would be to shorten the strut. Handling was no problem with them.

[stiglet]

Been looking into this further and i reckon there is real potential to vastly improve the handling here.

I'm confident my Coupe is pushing out on corners due to obscene positive camber on the front (and probably the rear too, but i'll get to that later). Would explain why it's so progressive on the limit, even with 235 wide boots. I'm fairly confident that with a set of ball joint extenders, i will not only reduce body roll but increase my camber compensation. Only concern is if my Coupe will start "snapping" at the limit. Only one way to find out!

I've emailed that company in the States linked above to see if they will ship abroad

[K Simmonds]

This is very interesting, the same thing has always bothered me. I'd be very interested to hear how you get on.