starting discussion on the use of new VW 2.5L 5Cyl in Small Chassis

[URQguy]

Yeah, I am very curious on the output. We have a Magnafuel 4303 pump coming this weekend and that should solve all fueling issues to 650whp.

No exhaust VVT on the rabbit motors, only the TFSI i5's got that. I keep hoping a TT-RS head will fall into my lap for reasonable money(sub 1500$ would be a deal for me), as blocking off the HPFP would be easy and have all the sensors, haudraulics and hardware to make both cams VVT. A good machinist with good tools could feasibly add the TT-RS parts to the regular NA head and come up with VVT on both cams, but I lack a CNC machine that could pull that off. Soon.

The N/A 07k head is a lot like the 7a head in that you can turn a 7a into AAN spec with machining, as all the bosses provisions are built into both.

Hank

[URQguy]

Fully dressed 2.5T 07k with accessories, manifolds, turbo, pans, fluids, fueling, radiator hoses, wastegate, throttlebody, ect weighing in at 349 pounds with 4 pounds worth of chain. With flywheel, disk and pressure plate, this is a 378 pound engine. TT-RS is advertised as 403lb engine, but it has a direction injection pump, a heavier intake setup and pulley setup along with a 16lb AC pump.

[Rocco]

How much for it shipped to Spain?

Looks brilliant!

[elaw]

Wow!

Have you ever weighed a similarly set up "old school" 20VT?

[URQguy]

A 3b or AAN is around 445 pounds without an AC compressor and in this configuration. This motor didn't have coils on it, but it did have a heavy chain that makes up for it.

[G60Rallye]

That's some saving over the front end! You would be saving more than going for an alloy block in the old 5 cylinder! Also that engine must have more weight rearward with the timing chain at the rear and the whole engine being shorter?

[URQguy]

Yes, the chains and phasers are all back on the bell housing which is basically putting the timing belt, tensioners, and cog gears all 18 inches back in the bay.

I think a fun thing to do would be to run an electric power steering pump out back, an electric water pump out back with radiators in the boot, then just run a small alternator off the rear of the engine. If a guy was willing to run tilton brake setups, you could actually get away with making a slick adapter to run the alternator off the rear using the vac assist drive that is fed from the intermediate drive that slows the cam shafts down to 1:2 the engine speed. Then you would have no accessories up front, the alternator would be hung over hte axle and you could basically cut another 30-40 pounds off the nose of the car and relocated them to the rear.

The things we do to make these pigs turn

[jade]

What's Involved in mounting the 07k to the later b6 manual box with the drive shafts further forward

Thanks

[Mcstiff]

Yes, the chains and phasers are all back on the bell housing which is basically putting the timing belt, tensioners, and cog gears all 18 inches back in the bay.

I think a fun thing to do would be to run an electric power steering pump out back, an electric water pump out back with radiators in the boot, then just run a small alternator off the rear of the engine. If a guy was willing to run tilton brake setups, you could actually get away with making a slick adapter to run the alternator off the rear using the vac assist drive that is fed from the intermediate drive that slows the cam shafts down to 1:2 the engine speed. Then you would have no accessories up front, the alternator would be hung over hte axle and you could basically cut another 30-40 pounds off the nose of the car and relocated them to the rear.

The things we do to make these pigs turn

If you're going that far why not (other than losing charging at a stop) run it off the rear diff like the old Audi Sport cars? For a "street" car I'd think you could squeeze it under the floor. If you're moving all the accessories maybe keeping the side mount rad is a better option than the trunk? It seems most of the trunk rad cars I can think of have heat issues.

I too am interested in the newer transmissions (if you're going to be a dog why be a chihuahua and all that).

[URQguy]

b6 would still be the same as the 01e in terms of fit and requirements.. The b8 trans would be really neat, but it would require some work in a b2-b4 chassis because of the steering arms. The rear timing chain cover comes within a half inch of those arms as is. If you had the ability to pull the engine back even further with the b8 manual transmissions, you could pull it off easily enough but the steering rack would need to be set back as well. That equals new firewall or more compact rack in the stock location.

Having a drivetrain driven alternator would suck, especially if you were counting on the 120 amps from the alternator to try and drive a 40 amp electric ps pump and a 20 amp water pump. I think a tiny alternator off the back of the motor from a reverse rotation engine like a honda would work well. Then you would always have power and 14V. Those honda alternators are sub 13 pounds and would package fairly nicely.

An 07k longblock without accessories but OE manifolds is right around 330 pounds once you ditch the huge 14lb bracket, a 20lb alternator, a 5 lb ps pump, and 8-9 pounds worth of tensioners and idlers. Another 40-50 lbs off the nose would be nice.

On the VLN TTRS, they kindof do that. They ditch the dual plan accessories and just run an alternator and waterpump off the same belt on custom engine bracket. Saves a ton of weight.

Another interesting tidbit is that the valve cover while pretty, is a 8lb valve cover. If you were running traditional wires with coils behind the firewall, you could just put a 1/16th piece of carbon over the top of the head for a valve cover, and redistribute 6-7lbs worth of coil to behind the axle as well. Same for the intake manifold. Sean really wanted a Turbo Script dual plenum manifold, but the thing is 7-8lbs overweight for what could do an equivalent job in a race car.

My personal car will see a lot of weight saving tactics like this. I am coming from a tall deck 2.5L that has 10lb heavier crank over the AAN (52 vs 42 for the 95.5 vs 86.4) as well as a 15lb heavier block with the 236 deck compared to an AAN. That would put my fully assembled 2.55L at almost 475lbs or almost 100lbs heavier than Seans motor. If I could cut 125lbs off the nose of the car, I would be thrilled.

[jade]

I too am interested in the newer transmissions (if you're going to be a dog why be a chihuahua and all that).[/QUOTE]

I have one I am considering using it in my SWB project, Mines from a 3l TDI wondering how strong they are ? But still not in my garage though so not sure how it shapes up yet

[jade]

I mean B8

[jade]

I was thinking it might be possible to move the rack up front, my car will be race orientated so mods are not a problem

[URQguy]

I knew what you meant

Yeah, if you are redesigning the firewall in a race car, just move the rack back the 5 inches or so you need to take advantage or ideally find another rack that is lower profile and only requires a 3 inch setback. The trans is quite a bit bigger as well, so anything pre b8 requires a tunnel modification too. Again not a big deal in race car

[URQguy]

Pretty wide trans too. From what I have seen, it requires extensive tunnel modification too, but benefit would be worth the work IMO

That trans is behind a compound turbo/Supercharged setup locally with a customer/friend. He is making over 580wtq and launching a 4000lb car with it. Has held up fine thus far, even with twin disk clutches and antilag