JE Pistons Group Buy

[Doug_RS2]

FAO Dave (Desmo888), Mark H, Timucin and anyone else.

Instead of emailing and PMing everyone, we'll keep all the info in here.

In order to get a discount for 3 or 4 sets we need to order the same pistons.

The spec so far is:

============================

Standard profile apart from:

81.5mm (2nd overbore - do we want to specify it as 81.48mm or 81.5mm?)

4.2 cc removed from top surface (reduces CR from 9.3:1 to 8.7:1 - still need confirmation on where this is removed)

Valve pockets recessed - this is because we have skimmed heads and higher lift cams. I have not had a problem with my skimmed head and 7A cam but it might be safer to lower the pockets 0.5mm (20thou)

No coatings (does anyone want coatings?)

Standard rings, pins and clips

============================

Timucin needs to know if NOS will make a differnece - also need confirmation that Timucin is going with 81.5mm pistons.

Dave has offered to organise shipping, although I think it would be easier if we still all pay JE direct for our own pistons.

Dave has also offered to send a piston as a template to JE.

Comments guys so we can thrash this out and get it organised asap.

Correspondance from JE to follow.

[Doug_RS2]

Response 1 form JE:

I hope I have the correct email address for JE Pistons? Yes you do.....

I have a 1995 Audi S2 Coupe which has the 5 cylinder 20V turbo engine(ABY code). It is a 2226cc engine.

We can make these for you with no problem but we require a sample piston in order to make the blueprints. Once we receive your sample we can make the pistons however you want them. These pistons have an unusal offset dish with valve pockets off one side that we do not have a reference for. We require the sample in order to make the blueprints and program.

I am in need of 5 new pistons.

I need the 2nd overbore of 81.5mm. No problem

I require them to fit the standard conrods with 20mm pin. No problem

I also want to lower the compression ratio from 9.3:1 to 8.7:1 - I have calculated I would need to remove 4.2cc from each piston to achieve this. No problem. That looks to be about correct by our calculations.

The pistons have to be capable of 550bhp and 700Nm. No problem

Can you please quote on price and leadtime for 5 off and for 10off of the pistons built to this spec. (including rings, pins and clips)
A set of 5 JE 2618 Alloy forged pistons with wrist pins and JE Rings is $795.00 per set and takes approx 3 -4 weeks to build once we receive the sample . Add $ 80 for Total-Seal Gapless rings

A set of 10 JE 2618 Alloy forged pistons with wrist pins and JE Rings is $1450.00 per set of 10 and Add $160 for Total-Seal Gapless rings per set of 10

$79.00 shipping via Global Express Mail for 5 pieces and $99.00 Shipping for 10 pieces ...

As with all our International orders we will be include a set of VERY LOW AMOUNT (15% of actual value ) invoices to save you on customs and duty on your end...

You can print this e-mail and include it with your sample piston...We will require payment in full in order to make these special order pistons.

Please give us a call with any questions.

Steve

JE Pistons
http://www.je-pistons.com
Internet and Technical Staff
7452 Varna Ave
N.Hollywood CA 91605
818 764-1901 818 764-0155 fax
e-mail: topend@racetep.com
Secure Online Ordering: https://secure.racetep.com/topendorders/toporder.html
Mon-Fri 8:00am - 5:00pm.
We Accept Visa, Mastercard, Am-Ex and Discover Card .

[Doug_RS2]

Response 2:

I have concerns over the total seal gapless rings (only becasue I have no experience of them - are they going to last with high bhp/cylinder?). Is there a standard ring option? How much are they? The prices are listed with the regular JE rings..The additional price is to add the Total-Seal Rings. The $795.00 price and $1450.00 price is including the normal JE rings. The additional $80 or $160 is to upgrade to Total-Seal rings.
We ONLY use the Total-Seal rings in the engines we build here. For Forced induction there is nothing better...BUT you should use what you are comfortable with.

What piston to wall gaps do your pistons require to have? I am concerned about too large a gap and piston slap at cold temperatures on startup.
.0035 - .004 Piston to wall clearance. Very tight and no real noise when cold. That is one of the best qualities of the JE 2618 Alloy....

Are there further discounts available for 15 off pistons or even more? I am a member of an Audi forum and there are several guys looking for pistons, the problem being we are located all over the world so a bulk order is hard to organise. www.s2forum.com
There is room for a little more discount on 3-4 sets...BUT they all need to be the same...In other words..If 1 guy wants 81.5mm and 8:1 and another guy wants 81mm and 8.5:1 there is no real discount. It is only if it is just a larger quantity of the exact same piston....

[timucin]

81.5 bore is ok with me
about my nos problem: its not releated with pistons,as long as they are forged they handle,only difference is rings.we sholud mentione this.

-i am ready to order,would like to pay with credit card to je or organiser if possible.

do we have exact delivery time?

[timucin]

why dont we lower the cr to 8:1 ? and boost more?----just and idea

[Doug_RS2]

Delivery is 4 weeks from the date they receive an order and they have standard piston in their hands.

8.7:1 is what most of us can live with - If you want even lower you can still get a custom headgasket.

Just waiting on Mark and Dave to reply and we'll take it from there.

Timucin - can you pm me your name so I can start giving more info to JE when I talk to them. Hopefully we can order 4 sets and all phone/fax/email to pay - we would then need to sort out delivery costs with Dave, if he is still willing to organise this.

[Mark Halligan]

Doug,

The spec that I would be going for would much the same as you posted i.e.

2nd standard oversize of 81.48mm/81.50mm (have you already had you block bored out to 81.5mm Doug?).

Piston crown recess deepened to make C/R 8.7:1, I don’t really want to go any lower than this as I don’t want to compromise off boost response and drivability too much. It also might be important if we specify that the deck height of the piston stays the same and the material is only removed from the dish area and not the edges around the piston circumference, so that squish is not affected.

Valve pockets recessed 0.5mm

If it doesn’t affect the group buy price I would like the coatings done, if not I could always get it done over here though.

Rings: I can’t make up my mind about these, I like the idea of the Total seal, especially now as they do both the top and second rings as gapless (according to Total seals site), and JE recommend them…….I need to think about these a bit more, and ask a few more questions.


Cheers,

Mark.

[S2central.net]

Mark - you are bang on right !

I'm not up for these funky pistons, but I would advise against a very low compression ratio as it will greatly reduce off-boost performance. Sure the top end figures will be better on account of increased boost - permitted by lower CR, but for a road car that isn't too clever.

What I would do is keep the highest CR possible , for low-end tractability, and have the pistons ceramic coated as insurance against knock at high boost levels. Just my two cents...


Cheers,

Paul

[timucin]

my login name is my real name:Timucin

coatings:yes
it doesnt cost too much and it only has advantages,my idea we should all get this option.

[desmo888]

I want stock CR so I may screw up the discount. Sorry but my car is my daily driver and I will not be going with big hp. Just getting a turbo engine in a Coupe will be a thrill.

I am also not a fan of the total seal rings. Coatings I will consider.

I forgot to bring the sample piston in today but I will get it shipped to them for tomorrow.

[timucin]

if we can choose the comp ratio:
me2 i want different cr.
8:1 i need

[Doug_RS2]

Ok - there isn't much difference in a group buy, I think myself and Mark will aim to get the same pistons though.

Q1 What diameter should we specify? 81.48mm this is the same as the standard overbored piston? If we are assuming the 0.004" pistn to wall gap we would require the the honing to take the diameter of our cylinders to 81.68mm Are we all happy with that?

Q2 Dave, Timucin - do you want the valve pockets recessed 0.5mm?

Q3 Dave - can you better the delivery costs or should we just go with JE?

I am waiting for a response on coatings and if the gapless and standard rings require different designs of pistons.

Doug

[Pisobiker]

Dave, I don't think knowing how much piston-to-cylindr clearance should be your concern, and I don't see why you should take this hassle.

You should just give your final exact cylinder bore to piston manufacturer.
JE and/or whatever piston manufacturer will know Piston dimension accordingly to give the correct clearances for your specific application (i.e. use and output).


Marco

[SteveH]

Marco is spot on! You don't know the expansion properties of the alloy JE are using to manufacture their pistons, so you can't advise them on the required working clearance. The OE pistons require 0.03mm clearance. I'd get your block bored and honed to 81.5mm and advise JE to machine their pistons to suit this bore size.

Just throwing my tuppence worth in because I can't afford to be part of this GB

[timucin]

Q2 Dave, Timucin - do you want the valve pockets recessed 0.5mm?
-yes
.................................................

81,5 etc, dont worry like they say , i can take care of machining stuff if needed.

..................................................
coating
-yes i want but if it will cause headache, i can give up np

.................................................. ..
compression ratio
-i need around 8:1 , cause i will convert mine more weekend driver then a daily driven car.i have to boost hi amounts

.................................................. .....
2 pin diameter
-yes ok

.................................................. .....
rings
-if you can mention that i am using nos,they will sure take care of it.simple solution