Mr Simmond's G60 B3 80 quattro light weight experiment...

[K Simmonds]

Cheers for the heads up John, I wondered what had happened. What a pity as it used to be so easy to include pic's in PM's etc, I can email the photos on my phone to myself and create a folder on my lap-top and upload them from there.

I've been poking around on eBay and an upgraded K04 isn't expensive and a decent stock one is unbeleivably cheap, that would get me to around 250- 300bhp and not require new rods. The peak torque would actually be much the same as that silly oil burner I've been driving and that's too much for the gearbox and it probably weighs 200kgs more than my B3 which granted is quattro so shouldn't stuggle for grip quite as badly esspecially with trackday tyres.

It would probably make sense to chuck a set of upgraded rods in whilst I'm at it but this is supposed to be a budget project and 1000kgs and 300bhp will be quite fast enough with the stock gearbox which is designed for 120ish bhp. So I'm in two minds regarding the matter, anyway I've got a bit of time to think about it.

I think a turbo like this would be quite enough to make a fun, drivable car.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/225148182...3Avlp_homepage

[K Simmonds]

I've been doing even more research on 1.8T engines, pouring through a lot of info as theres over a dozen engine codes and one can mix and match cylinder heads and a lot of the internals... However the early 058 block casting is totally different to the later 06A and unfortunataly the crankshafts are not readily interchangeable due to a difference in the trigger wheels and oil pump drive. Anyway I have a plan...

As Lee is very kindly sending me the cable to flash a stock ECU I'm now 100% set on a internaly gated K04 and an uprated exhaust manifold, nice and simple with a safe 250-300BHP. Pleantly in a car that weights about 1000KG with gearing designed for 115BHP and 120MPH top speed at 6K RPM. The 1.8T motor rev's to 7K so it should be pretty mental if given stick but also criuse along happily enough off boost, the gearbox has nice close ratios a bit like a an MK2 8V Golf GTI so if one is prepaired to use the gears it'll be quick to say the least.

I may use the flywheel off the existing 3A engine and find a clutch from a V6 TDI if I can find one that fits, Audi clutchs are pretty interchagable. Dave also has a single mass conversion which might be a better job as it's got a clutch fitted ready to go. I'll have to have a look and see what's the best option fit wise, I'd like to use the lighter of two to make it as free reving as feasiable with a stock aranagment.

I'll fabricate a 3" downpipe and cat/box less exhaust system running to the straght through Jetex backbox left over from my S2... Basically the same arangement as on that car, backbox aside it cost well under £100 to do it with mild steel but this time I'm going to spend around £150 and make it all out of SS. I'll buy a good quailty flange for the turbo exit and weld the downpipe on with it bolted to the turbo to prevent warping, I may even cut the first six inches or so off a a stock downpipe and work from that as that avoids having to purchase something..

I'm not going to change the the rods as it pointless and saves £250 and a load time ballancing them as I bet they're all over the place compared to stock Audi parts. That money pays for a gasket set and head bolts with change, I've priced up all new shells to refresh Daves old 058 bottom end and with a pair of crack seals they come to around £150 from TPS for genuine Audi parts.

I need to inspect the 058 head closely as it was starved of oil and the cam chain tensioner pooed it pants, this isn't the end of the world and I've seen pics of the cams and head and it looks like it's okay... I was planning on fitting the 06A head as it's really good condition and low milage, however this is suboptimal as it's the small inlet port version unlike the early 058 head which has significantly larger inlet ports. So I suspect I'll end up using the 06A casting for parts and swap over all the lifters out of my 058 head apart from the cams as they will have worn into that head casting.

I need to spend a day or two cleaniing my workshop before putting it on an engine stand to pull it apart, I need a spotlessly clean beach to lay out the internals and inspect every thing.

We also have several spare 1.8T heads and engines at work, if I can find a complete large port one I may use that instead.

As I'm going to be building Dave old 058 block from scratch I'll take it into work and deck it on the mill, hopefully I only have to remove a couple of thou to get it perfect again otherwise it means fannying around with the pistons. But it's worth doing if your bulding an engine from scratch, as a rule VAG engines need very little material to be removed as they're pretty much spot on from the factory.

So I have a budget plan... I still really love the idea of using my G60 engine but it simply makes no sense when I can build up a 1.8T that's good for knocking on 300BHP for about £500, not including my labour.

At the moment I've popped the the Velour seats back in to get them out the way, I still have a fair bit of sound insulation to remove but I I need the space in my workshop for Corrado parts. So now whenever I open the door it smells of the 1980's... Perfect!

One thing I need is the cage that holds the three gauges in the center console I have everything else and could probaly cobble something up but if anyone has a spare I'd like to buy it.

I can't seem to post photo's easily at the moment and there isn't really a lot to see anyway, however I will send the ones I've taken to a folder on my laptop and try uploading them from there.

[Tractor Dave]

All very interesting Kit. Looking forward to seeing it all come together. I have an aux gauge set here came out of the cabriolet I broke.

[K Simmonds]

Yeah there's a weath of info regarding tunning 1.8T's as they were fitted to so many cars for a very long time which is great as it means parts are cheap and readily available. I can get a stock K04 for less than £200, though I'd like to get one with a billet comp wheel so am looking spend a bit more than that.

It's crazy, I've built a few engines at work but never done one for myself, I've rebuilt the odd head but never done a complete build from scratch for myself. As you know I was planning to use an S2 engine but parts are now so hard to come by I'm glad I abandonded this idea.

Thanks for the gauges as well as the engine!

[K Simmonds]

Minor update, mostly concerning potification about where to put things and what I can use without having to purchase too much stuff. My budget for this engine install is £1K, that's not including my time or parts I already own.

I'm going to be picking up my engine from Dave soon along with a gasket set, an aftermarket Chinese cast 'performance' manifold which I'll port and match to the head, a single mass flywheel/cluch and a set of aux gauges all for a very fair price which is really appreciated.

I think I'll probably use the head from my other 1.8T as it's in great condition and the smaller ports aren't an issue with the power I'm aiming for, though I will strip and rebuild it as well as tidy up the ports if I do use it.

I'll also assess the existing head closely and may use that if the oil starvation hasn't done too much damage, aparently the car wasn't run for very long so I'm fairly hopeful it's going to be recoverable.

He's also giving me a stock B3 Coupe front bumper which I'll probably use to give more clearance for the ABY intercooler. However the stock bumper is very simple as it's a base model car and I would preffer to use that but don't think it'll fit without major revision so having the Coupe bumper is great option and very much appreciated!

I sold my last S2 bumper last year before I got my 80Q back, if I'd know I'd be embarking on this endevour I'd probably of kept it.

Been rumagaing to see what parts I've got in stock 1.8T wise and I have an A3 airbox with a new genuine MAF attatched which is a major bonus, along with a new alternator/pully and both manifolds with throttle body which is very handy. I have an extensive collection of Audi airboxes from cars I've broken so I'll pick the one that fits best, it'll probaly be a 2.6 V6 one as that's actually designed for the engine bay.

I hope to use as many S2 boost pipes as I can, I'm pretty sure the MAF/turbo hose will fit I adjust the airbox to suit and I even hope to use the steel pipe that runs over the engine as it has my inlet air temp sensor already in it, making a custom IM isn't out of the question as the guy I work with is pretty handy with a TIG. The turbo to intercooler pipe will probably have to be custom made, though I will try a stock S2 one to see if it goes. If it doesn't I have a 3B turbo/intercooler pipe that already been cut up so I could use that, the 1.8T uses the same diverter valve as an S2 and I think the N75 is very much the same but not 100% on that.

The evap system will be ditched completly to save space and weight, the fuel tank will be vented to the atmospheare with a valve on the line to cut fuel if the car's upsidedown. I still have my S2 system so will adapt and use that. I have an S2 washer bottle that fits in the inner wing space so that will be fitted to save more space, as much as this is a budget project I want it to look stock or at least close to.

I'll be using a catch tank to keep the oil super clean and greatly reduce the amount of oil fumes the engine has to ingest. I don't run a return to sump as the amount of water and gack the tank catches is surprising and I don't want it in my oil.

I also have my upper centre console/vent blanking plate left over my S2 which houses my Zetronix display and a boost gauge which will be fitted to give me loads of data regarding the engine to keep it safe. I also have a black boost gauge left over from my Corrado which matches the Audi gauges very well, though it may not read high enough as G60's don't produce much boost as stock, will have to check that. It'll need to read up to 2 bar to give a nice scale, though my max boost won't be that high, probably around 1.6 bar.

The Toyo 888's I fitted to my 15" wheels are all still at 40 psi which is what I set them at when I fitted them, though I'll reduce that to around stock when the car is driving again, though it's nice to know they all hold air. I still have the set of Dunlops to fit to my OE 14" BBS RA's, I was lucky to get a car with them as A I really like them, B they're super light and C they are the original wheels some chap in 1989 decided he liked the look of along with the rear spoiler which is a bonus. Central locking, electric mirrors and electric front windows are nice to have as well.

My final consideration for now is suspension, the stuff on there is in reasonable condition but due to the weight loss the car sit's very high so I'm after some S2 or Coupe/90 Sports pack springs. I have a really good pair of Sasch sport rear dampers left over from my S2 but I don't have any 50mm dampers for the front, though the ones on there look fine for now. I have a pair of top mounts with the saver rings for the front, again left over from my S2 as well as a box full of good stock top mounts, I do have anoher pair with mount savers but they're detined for my RS2 and it's fairly pointless fitting them to the rear.

Right enough thinking out loud for now!

[K Simmonds]

Fitted the new wing today, this bright red so a good contrast with black, I stepped on the bottom bit and bent it slightly but it'll striagten up okay.

Wish I could take pics quickly still.

Then spent the rest of the day working on my C4, all the new suspension is on and the car back on it's wheels. Just got a couple of seized brake pipes to deal with.... I blasted them with Map gas before I knocked off so hopefully they'll shift tommorow.

[Rikki Kitto]

sort ya clock out it's still on BST

[Rikki Kitto]

looks like mine is too

[K Simmonds]

I didn't know there was an option to adjust that, always figured the site was simply on BST all the time, I'll have a look at the settings.

[newsh]

I’ve got a pair of s2 coupe bumpers that need a good home Kit

There’s a clock??

[K Simmonds]

I’ve got a pair of s2 coupe bumpers that need a good home Kit

There’s a clock??

That's very good of you to mention Jonh, ther front would be much appreciated and if I can make the back fit so much the better.

Drop me a PM please or I'll send you one regarding collection and a price.

I know I'm going for the sleeper/rat look but having a genuine S2 front bumper would be great.

You haven't got a set of S2/CQ spings of any description by any chance?

When I say clocks I'm reffering to the instument cluster, which has a digital clock in the speedo face as per normal

[K Simmonds]

I now have a V6/S2 front bumper complete with grills, indicators and fog lights, which is nice, it'll take a bit work to make it fit properly but nothing too technical and means pleantly of space for my ABY intercooler and cross member. It needs one small repair on the nearside corner but is very solid otherwise, even came with the mounting hardware, cheers John!

Along with the bumper I got a set of stock S2 springs that have been properly lowered by about 20mm and powder coated black, I'm hoping they give the ride height a decent drop as with the weight loss the car currently sits at a silly height, especially with the 195/50/15 tyres with are just a touch smaller than stock 205/50/15's. I like fairly firm suspension so I'm hoping they work out about right.

Also dug through my B3 headlight stash and found a decent pair with good indicators and have tempory mounted them just make sure they do actually fit as theres a couple of variations of B3 lights. Anyway, I have a matched pair of the correct ones that go with the grill, the lower nearside mounting points are bent as that's the bit of the car that got to meet a fence post so that needs sorting out properly with a hammer and dolly.

I do have one good nearside elipsiod and an offside one that just needs a new glass to make a pair but they're really supossed to be RS2 spares, though it is tempting to fit them. I'll poticficate regarding this over the next couple of days.

I need to remove the headlights now I know their correct and set about straghting the various bent bits on the nearside and the one end of my S2 cross member then fit the B3 lower cross member to make sure everything is straight and work from there building up the front end, even though it's got to come apart again to swap engines.

Also been doing some serious thinking regarding engines, the cars quite fast now it only weighs 1000Kg with 115BHP so as I want instant torque really the G60 is a better fit for this, plus I already have it and it's not a difficult swap. I know if I sold it in bits I could make a fair amount of money but thats hassle and while this may sounds a bit strange I'm quite attached to the engine, I got to enjoy it for ten years in my Corrado and had only just fitted a really well built charger so it pains me to break it up.

Plus, I don't want to seem funny but the MK2 Golf lot are a PITA to deal with compared to folk on here who have manners, I've been inundated with ridiclous offers... Normally in a single sentance message and when I give a fair price they either don't respond or make silly offers, somethimes they're plain rude in which case I ignore them.

My G60 Golf is set up to run 210bhp at 6K and 215NM of torque pretty much from the get go, I recall driving it and it was crazy with 2WD, so I'm considering putting the Golf back to stock which I have all the parts from and fitting the go fast bit's to my Corrados engine which in the B3 quattro chassis would be really good fun.

I don't really need a 300bhp 1000kg car, plus keeping the power and torque down means the drive line gets an easier time, I just want something that's fun to drive not another rocket powered missile like my S2.

Anyway, I need to spend a good deal of time potificating regarding the best course of action, I'll try and get some photos up loaded tomorrow.

[Jaswan]

Hi mate.

Iv built a few cars with the 1.8t, mk2 scirocco mk1 and mk2 golfs.

Anyhow. The stock engine with an exhaust and a map (resulting in about 230 Bhp) is pretty much like driving a TDI. It has power from almost idle and a decent wedge of low torque as the turbo is small. That said. All of my cars used the AUM Engine code which has the "KO3s" turbo.

I think for long term costs, the 18T would be the more cost effective option... For example a used turbo would be pence and easy to source, where as how much would a G-Ladder be?

Just my thoughts.

Jase.

[K Simmonds]

Yeah, your quite right the 1.8T is certainly cheaper in the long run. However my B3 is being built as toy to blast around locally so it'll probably only cover a couple of thousand miles a year, the charger is new so will last ages at that rate and I can rebuild one myself for £350 now I have more time. Plus the 1.8T I'm getting has to be fully rebuilt from scratch whereas the G60 engine is now just sat there ready to go and I fancy doing something different. Also the ethos of my B3 80 project is to use what I have to hand.

I also can't find my 1.8T loom and ECU, my father packed a load of my stuff away whist I was ill and I know it's in a box somewhere, however I have a lot of boxes.

Really I shoud be just be working on getting my G60 Golf ready to sell now I can move my C4 and get the Golf over the pit, so it kind of makes sense to be working on two G60's at the same time.

I still haven't made my mind up I'll think about it while a fabricate a centre section to replace the Cat's on my C4 as it really makes sense to do that now.

First thing I have to do is spend a day getting all the stuff left over from the C4 I broke last year into the attic and have a really good tidy up, until I've done that I can't really think straight.

[K Simmonds]

Quick update on my pontifications whilst I've been working on my 1992 C4 2.8 Avant quattro and researching G60 and 1.8T engines, mostly on the VW Vortex forum which has almost too much information... I know, I know. I should have started a project thread regarding the car as I've done quite extensive work on it using a lot of nice parts havested from the 1997 C4 30V quattro Saloon I broke last year. However, aside from some simple work on the brakes and some not so simple work on the exhaust it's pretty much done and I find stopping to take photos with hands covered in oil, grease and brake fluid slows me down and breaks my concentration. I like to get stuck into jobs without any distractions, it's simply the way I've always worked. I do have a couple of photos of the car on my phone which I'll try and add to the thread, I still use my laptop for 90% of my online activity.

It's a really nice example, very straight and original, low milage (120K), FSH and it runs perfectly as it's never been molested, the body is totally rust free and it's an interesting grey/blue metalic colour with the optional roof spolier so looks quite like an early URS6. It does have corrosion on both wings but I have a rust free pair ready to go on, however cosmetics are not of much importance until the car is MOT'd and on the road, I'd rather speand money on mechanical work for now.

I fitted a full Sachs clutch kit, rear crank seal and input shaft seal etc a couple of years ago on the lift at work. There's so much space on a C4 it only took a little over half a day, the worst part was undoing the downpipe fixings from the manifolds and fitting new studs as half of them snapped, that probably took more time than whipping the box in and out. I also fitted the stock 3B wheels from my dead S2 along with new semi budget 215/55/16 tyres, an odd size I know but they're listed as one of the options in the owners manual and I got a great deal on a set of four from eBay. I got lucky and managed to pick up a full set of late URS6 black leather seats, they were local collection and whilst very dirty in pretty good condition. The rears don't need much work but the fronts need intense cleaning and lots of leather feed, the uppers drivers side outer bolster also needs to be recovered. I only paid £100 for them and I've been quoted £80 for the repair if I send just that part of the seat to the uphousltry guy so I reckon they were a bargain. No door cards though so I'm going to fit a set with very dark grey/black Velour fabric and nice dark walnut trim along with the matching dash bit's. Then I get get the best of both worlds, nice leather seats with the aroma of the 1980's and I'm now old enough to really appreciate the wood trim.

I'll try and condense all the work I've done in the following paragraph. The 1997 car had spent it's entire life in London and had recently had all new genuine Audi sports suspension (springs and dampers), various brake pipes, control arms, a pair of rear calipers and new front discs and pads. Nothing was grotty on the whole underside, very nice and clean unlike my 1992 car which been used year round on the open road and was showing its age. So I swapped the the complete front suspension assembly, subframe, brakes the lot along with the rear springs and shocks.

I still have a bit of work to do on the brakes, swap the rear calipers and bleed the system. The only big task ahead is the exhaust. I sent pics of the Cats to the guy I sell my scrap ones to and he offered me £500 for the pair and I figured for that money I could easily replace them with something better. As it happens the car is just early enough not to require them and when I removed them I found that one had started to break up and was at least half blocked so I'm very glad I did away with them. Though that now leaves me with no centre section, I have the system from the 30V it's pretty robust and in very good shape which I think I'll end up using though I still need to connect it to the downpipes, I have pleanly of bits of exhaust I can build a system from it's just going to require a bit of thought.

Anyway, back to my 80 quattro... I've got all sort's of options in my head which I think I'll leave for another post, I've still got to spend an entire day getting the remains of the 30V into my attic as it's taking up all my spare floor space and doing my head in. I have two very well lit bays in my workshop, one with a pit and they're really long, so my RS2 is going to reside one side with enough space behind it for the engine hoist and general Corrado breaking activitys.

Once the the C4 is out of the way I've enough space the other side to get my MK2 Golf G60 and B3 80 in completly and have the outside sliding door closed with ample space to work on both cars which now it's winter is a result. I want to put the cars in so the engine bays are in the middle...

Really, the Golf should be my number one priority as it really doesn't need much work to get it ready to sell, the funds from that car are going to cover restoring my RS2. I've got all the parts required to make it into a really nice car, the only crappy job is recovering the head lining, I've already put the engine back to the stock 160BHP set up and have the 210BHP ECU and pulley set aside. I think the car will be more salable running standard power, with all the correct G60 Golf parts making for a very tidy conversion from the 1992 run out model 8V GTI. It's a really nice example, no rust and never been welded, one door has had a very good repair that I only discovered when I was changing the front window regulators for brand new genuine ones.