500 hp project

[timucin]

last minute news from machining shop:
i 've lost:
crankshaft;connecting rods (all of them)......

[Jeffer]

last minute news from machining shop:
i 've lost:
crankshaft;connecting rods (all of them)......

More important! what caused it! Have they told that aswell?

[Lupo911]

what about your Flywheel? Was it balanced with the Crankshaft on it? I saw exactly the same Problem on a different Engine, just the Flywheel was not balanced...

[timucin]

dunno the reason yet

lupo;flywheel was not balanced with the crankshaft on it

[Lupo911]

ok, now you know why your Engine is f***...

[zlobo]

Timucin a question was there oil in the top? and oin on the berings?

[kelesha]

timucin first sorry for your bad luck but what type of oil you use ? Syntetic OK but what company ? Anyway i think that oil is not your problem, my opinion is that your car is not tuned right, iron is nothing without management.
1. Are you use WideBand air fuel ratio meter when you tune the car ?
2. Are you have base tuning software(chip) from what your friend made tuning, or he made tuning from original ECU files ?
3. What software for make tuning files use your friend, i look pics and i have idea but need to be sure to comment ?
4. Are you measure EGT and if yes, how much is temperature when you are in 4 gear in example on full throtle and 6000-6500rpm ?

There is no reason for such damage when you have right engine management, i think that your engine run very lean on boost and big detonations damage rod bearings and crankshaft. Other reason is very big spark advance, but i can't be sure because i don't have our "tuned" files to look them and how they are made. I don't know what is your friend experience with big BHP engine tuning but i know that standart ECU maping with big injectors for big BHP engine is very very difficult and can be done only on the dyno with all necessary measurement tools like wideband a/f monitor and EGT monitor too. Anyway to broken such car equiped with original Motronic ECU is so difficult i think if ECU software have untouched knock corection maps, but if "tuner" touch these maps problem can appear immediately.....are you have to your PC "tuned" files that are used in your car when the problem appear ? If this is no problem for you, send me these files and i look them and tell you can they be the reason for such damage.

sorry for not very good English

greetings
Tony

[Mihnea]

Tony, I can vouch for the man that has tuned the car that the car has been tuned as good as it could possibly ever be tuned. Erdal knows his stuff and is the only person in the world I know personally whom I'd trust a 500+ HP engine with. He knows everything about ALL the possible maps inside and outside an S2/RS2 Motronic ECU, and I repeat, he knows his stuff and would never do anything stupid like getting the engine to run lean or mess with knock correction maps.

Of course a wideband AFR meter and EGT were used while tuning the car, there would be no way around it without this, heck, I'd like to see anyone try to tune a car on injectors 3 times as big as stock without a WBO2 system

By the way, I haven't seen the tuned files Erdal has made for this car and I know I don't need to. IMHO if you look at them you won't be able to understand much but hey, that's just my 0.02 based on the fact that I know who you are. so basically don't even think about looking at those files, they won't tell you much....

Mihnea

timucin first sorry for your bad luck but what type of oil you use ? Syntetic OK but what company ? Anyway i think that oil is not your problem, my opinion is that your car is not tuned right, iron is nothing without management.
1. Are you use WideBand air fuel ratio meter when you tune the car ?
2. Are you have base tuning software(chip) from what your friend made tuning, or he made tuning from original ECU files ?


blah blah blah removed

Tony

[kelesha]

Mihnea thanks for your honest reply, i don't know from where you know me but this is not very important really, may be from any other forum i don't know......problem is that this man timucin spend very big amount of money for his car and result is two broken engines and xxxx$ in the rubbish. What you think ? This is the reason for my posting.....i am new at this forum but when i read this topic i was shocked......like you and all of you know there aren't more reasons for such engine damages, if tuner was perfect with perfect experience in tuning for such cars, then other reason is bad engine building or very very poor quality oil, but i don't think so that oil is problem for damaged new engine in 100km. In my country i know several engines runing 2.2-2.6 bar of boost with semisynthetic oil and they don't have any damage. Like you know Motronic is very intelligent system and if software is good then damage chance is minimal, but other reason for damage is incorect adherence to specifications when engine is builded, how you can explain rod bearings and crankshaft failure after 100-200km run ??? There aren't more reasons for this i think. Here in my country there is one S2 with around 560hp to flywheel and additional 100hp NOS, this is everyday car and run absolutely fine, engine is with JE pistons and Eagle rods, car is maped with Dimsport Race2000 on the Dynapack dyno and there are not problems with engine yet, but car has thousands km and is driven almost every weekend very hard. In any case this is people mistake i think, bad oil, bad quality bearings truly can survive more than 100-200km, but if engine is incorect builded or incorect tuned there is no chance for engine to survive really

[kelesha]

what about your Flywheel? Was it balanced with the Crankshaft on it? I saw exactly the same Problem on a different Engine, just the Flywheel was not balanced...

lupo;flywheel was not balanced with the crankshaft on it

ok, now you know why your Engine is f***...

Lupo why you think that if the crank is not balanced with flywheel than rod bearings will go out but crank bearings will survive ?

[Mihnea]

Thanks for stopping the BS around the software issue, it is not that which caused Timucin's engine damage. I am thinking more of an oil starvation issue rather than anything else.

Mihnea thanks for your honest reply, i don't know from where you know me but this is not very important really, may be from any other forum i don't know......problem is that this man timucin spend very big amount of money for his car and result is two broken engines and xxxx$ in the rubbish. What you think ? This is the reason for my posting.....i am new at this forum but when i read this topic i was shocked......like you and all of you know there aren't more reasons for such engine damages, if tuner was perfect with perfect experience in tuning for such cars, then other reason is bad engine building or very very poor quality oil, but i don't think so that oil is problem for damaged new engine in 100km. In my country i know several engines runing 2.2-2.6 bar of boost with semisynthetic oil and they don't have any damage. Like you know Motronic is very intelligent system and if software is good then damage chance is minimal, but other reason for damage is incorect adherence to specifications when engine is builded, how you can explain rod bearings and crankshaft failure after 100-200km run ??? There aren't more reasons for this i think. Here in my country there is one S2 with around 560hp to flywheel and additional 100hp NOS, this is everyday car and run absolutely fine, engine is with JE pistons and Eagle rods, car is maped with Dimsport Race2000 on the Dynapack dyno and there are not problems with engine yet, but car has thousands km and is driven almost every weekend very hard. In any case this is people mistake i think, bad oil, bad quality bearings truly can survive more than 100-200km, but if engine is incorect builded or incorect tuned there is no chance for engine to survive really

[Mark Halligan]

I am thinking more of an oil starvation issue rather than anything else.

Yes it does look like it on the second time it all went wrong, what with the damage to the bearings, journals, spun shells in the rods and all.

Perhaps I missed a post, but was it ever established for definate why the number 5 piston was so badly damaged the first time it all went bad?

I really feel for you Timucin, a real nightmare, hope you get it all resolved soon.

Mark.

[repo]

The molten piston was definitely detonation. No doubt. No matter whaterver whoever says.

I just hope U guys replaced the bearings after the piston damage. In case not, no reason to wonder what busted the bearings.

Also, we never got answer to the rev limit question.

[kelesha]

Really when i look Timucin "melted" piston this looks like more than broken, not melted. Such damage really can be caused by foolishly incorrect engine building, JE pistons need more piston to cilinder wall clearance than original pistons, and when you built the engine with such pistons you need to reckon with this IMPORTANT think. In such cases like 2.2 engine with more than 600hp(because Timuchin turbo is for more than 600hp really) this piston to wall clearance need to be more bigest i think in this case with this piston diameter clearance need to be around 0.09-0.1mm.....for original pistons this clearance is two ways smaller in any cases more than two. If engine builders use small clearance for JE pistons, piston swell when is hot and touch cilinder wall, in this case piston damage is look like Timucin piston really. I don't know whether this is the reason for first Timucin damage, but if engine builder haven't experience for race engine building, then this is common case Like i wrote, Timucin engine damages are people mistake, not bad component using, JE pistons are really perfect quality, Carillo rods too, but if engine is build with incorect dimensions.....then never will survive If there is a such case with crank, rods and rod bearing mounting, than this is noting strangely here. May be Timucin will share where he build his engine and any other details around this, this will be interesting for all i think because this can prevent such cases in future with other people.

[murat]

any updates???