AAN into Ur quattro, 400-450 Bhp Target

[th.b.w.]

Hi, from 6000 to redline 1.75 is o.k. ,
but what boost it will be from 4500 - 6000 ..?

Thomas

[URquattroGus]

I think the peak boost is just over 25 PSI, maybe a little more, I didn't really ask in much detail to be honest.

They didn't use the 1.9 Bar wastegate spring I took along, rather adjusted the existing spring slightly.

No issues with the Deka's that I can make out, idles just as before. Rpm I can't check atm but probaly between 750-950rpm, sounds almost exactly the same as before really.

Having said all this, I've only driven it home and parked it up. One boost hose developed a leak or popped of sligtly a few minutes away from home so going to check everything this weekend.

Think it's the Mikalor hose clamps we used, Doug replaced some before mapping when he leak tested it and said they weren't much cop.

Maybe they don't pinch the hose quite enough? and a google search seems to suggest they are prone to leaking, think they are more exhaust clamps really?

Clutch is a sachs uprated plate and organic disc. Drive shafts are the same but spaced on one side (I think, would have to ask Pete Berry)


Not sure what the humps in the graph signify? Didnt necessarily expect it to be perfectly smooth....

As for the interior, adding two cows worth of leather won't speed it up! extra weight and extra hassle, plus I want to keep it looking standard so the glorious 1984 tweed will remain

Anyway, Doug made a video of one of the Dyno runs;

http://www.youtube.com/user/dougatmrc#p/u/3/K8GoaQir2W0

[Rocco]

congratulations with your results,you should be very happy ,sure¡

good turbo for 400/450hp

[prj]

I am in process of mapping a 3071R car myself.
Humps on the graph mean fluctuations in boost, but if you want to map out the surge without hurting spool too much, that's how it is going to look.
I also just blew off an intercooler hose... at 27 PSI.

Also running Deka's on this car. Idles fine to the ear, but the wideband tells another story. Mixture is not totally stable between idle and different very low load situations.
This is because the injector is not linear at all anymore.

But closed loop takes care of it mostly.
I am still not happy with the injector, when EV14's are just so much better..

[URquattroGus]

It's probably churlish, but how do you think I could improve my torque figure? It achived 538nm, but I was expecting maybe closer to 600nm, is this unrealistic?

Also, what effects if any do you think head porting would have, would it reduce surge and produce a little more power?

I've only made it surge a couple of times when really leaning on it for a long time in a high gear.



In other news, I sucesfully did a 900 odd mile round trip to Le Mans and back for the race, and it all ran flawlessly, much to the surprise of my mates who were all making bets that I wouln't make it there because it's an "old" car

Had some fun on the way down, pulled a B7 RS4's trousers down off the payage, I think he was surprised to say the least. Also drove round some of the circuit after the race, which was fun!

[Jamo]

Be careful as going to the next level now costs money, looking at the car it's setup for great drive-ability. Head porting and cam clocking would be next but personally if the car is running well leave well alone!

[A80Avant]

the 600nm figure can come with more overboost but it will flutter on higher gears(surge). i had a little surge, but i didnt mind that much

[URquattroGus]

New Catch tank; (1/3 of the weight of the old one, and it doesnt leak!) Looks a lot better to my eyes.





A photo from Le Mans a few months ago.

[quattroamm]

Hi can you tell me what throttle cable you have used with the wagner inlet, cheers

[prj]

the 600nm figure can come with more overboost but it will flutter on higher gears(surge). i had a little surge, but i didnt mind that much

It should not surge if it's making 440 hp. That means housing is big enough.
Richard's car had much fewer mods than this one (no fancy IC or IM etc, just stock RS2 engine) and it made 430/600 when mapped on the road. It also did not surge in any gear with 0.82 A/R hotside.
I ran it up to 28 PSI though, this car is running less boost, maybe a bit less peak timing, thus the torque difference.

An additional 3-4 PSI at peak torque should be good for 40-50nm on this, fuel quality and CR permitting.

[A80Avant]

i thought we were talking about the 0.63ar not the 0.82 as at the beginning of the thread it was mentioned of the 0.63. Judging by the power curve with having the initial high torque at 3500rpm, i believe its the 0.63ar that is being used. Also the fact that the power curve is not linear, may also mean if not slipping on the rollers, a bit of surge.

we know that the 0.82ar does not surge on 3071 or 3076. hell of a lag though

[Thuppu]

New Catch tank; (1/3 of the weight of the old one, and it doesnt leak!) Looks a lot better to my eyes.

Nice tank , but how do you empty it?

[URquattroGus]

Its a 0.63AR Turbo. No slipping on the rollers as far as I know.

Tank is emptied by a unscrewing a bung at the bottom. Or plan B would be to use my vacuum powered fluid extractor.

[A80Avant]

then its likely that the lines on the dyno are surge. Looks excactly as what i had whenever anyone tried to get more DC on the N75 to get the turbo to spool faster. My curve was working much better when it was delayed and the DC was much less, but the car felt it had much more lag.
Once i changed to vems, it was much better and the surge was minimal, even by using the same N75 valve. Honestly, i never understood why that happened. 3 different people had a go on the motronic, none was succesfull(on my car). I guess it may have been the way the 2 ecu's dealt with the boost profile. I bet an electronic boost control would do something similar to vems, as that is what it's implemented in the ecu.

nice results nonetheless!!!

[prj]

we know that the 0.82ar does not surge on 3071 or 3076. hell of a lag though

I would not say full boost at 3700-3800 is "a lot of lag", which is what you get on a 3071R with a 0.82A/R housing.

then its likely that the lines on the dyno are surge. Looks excactly as what i had whenever anyone tried to get more DC on the N75 to get the turbo to spool faster. My curve was working much better when it was delayed and the DC was much less, but the car felt it had much more lag.
Once i changed to vems, it was much better and the surge was minimal, even by using the same N75 valve. Honestly, i never understood why that happened. 3 different people had a go on the motronic, none was succesfull(on my car). I guess it may have been the way the 2 ecu's dealt with the boost profile. I bet an electronic boost control would do something similar to vems, as that is what it's implemented in the ecu.

nice results nonetheless!!!

Please stop spreading misinformation.
Tuned three cars with 0.63 A/R 3071's now.
No surge when mapped properly. No problems with late spool. I guess your tuners have one or two things to learn about Motronic still.

I already said - key is not to request 2 bar boost all the time.
All your files you have sent me do exactly that - they request 2 bar below 4000 rpm, and then reduce duty cycle, so it hurts spool.
You need to key in boost profile to match actual no-surge profile in lower gears, and adjust duty very slightly (within adaptation limits), so that it's good in low gears and good in high gears. Not rocket science, but you do need to know how the system works, and not raise some maps in winols...

That won't probably say much, but the fact that 3 people were not able to map a 3071R on a 0.63 A/R housing correctly on this injection system, shows a failure on their part, and not a failure of the system.

In case of Agnus' car the dyno run was probably made in fourth, and I don't see anything really wrong with it. It probably won't have those fluctuations in third, and if you look at the scale of the graph, most of the fluctuations are within 50nm, except the last one (and there is 500nm torque), so the car probably feels pretty smooth on the road.
And the last one might not be due to boost flutter, but due to a timing map that is not completely smoothed out as well. You never know just from the dyno plot.