AAN into Ur quattro, 400-450 Bhp Target

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  • DJones
    S2Forum Fiend
    • Jun 2005
    • 2020
    • Country: United Kingdom

    #211
    Angus,

    Pleased you got it up and running

    Have to say though, given the grief you have been through let alone the cost, i would have wanted more of a difference..

    Still you have to test these things...

    Darren.

    Comment

    • URquattroGus
      S2Forum Maniac
      • Aug 2007
      • 547
      • Country: United Kingdom

      #212
      Originally posted by DJones
      Angus,

      Pleased you got it up and running

      Have to say though, given the grief you have been through let alone the cost, i would have wanted more of a difference..

      Still you have to test these things...

      Darren.
      Yes, it's been a lot of money, time and effort for -20bhp

      However, it's far from disaterous. The Bhp is what I was expecting, the spoolup has not changed as much as I thought. On the road the difference is a more pronounced than the graph though. I think it's more driveable and exploitable.

      It surprises me that the spoolup is not quite a lot better as the exhaust and turbine wheels are quite a lot smaller and lighter. If you look at it another way it's quite impressive that it nearly matches a biggeer Turbo for output.

      I could fit a 0.82 hotside for more top end, but that would defeat the object.

      Perhaps on what is now an older design of engine there is not that much I could do to improve the bottom end of the graph.

      I have been spoilt by my focus RS which starts at 2k and doesnt let off til 7000rpm. Thats a 2.5L with higher comp ratio and turbo specific to the car.

      Suggestions are welcome anyway, but I have to say although I was a little dissapointed I am very happy with the car, I think I have gained some driveability.
      Angus

      (1984 ur quattro)

      Comment

      • Billman
        S2Forum Freak
        • Nov 2004
        • 4129

        #213
        Can you please comment again on your cam setup, exhaust manifold and inlet tract?
        Go Holset or Go RS4

        Comment

        • URquattroGus
          S2Forum Maniac
          • Aug 2007
          • 547
          • Country: United Kingdom

          #214
          Originally posted by Billman
          Can you please comment again on your cam setup, exhaust manifold and inlet tract?
          AAN Cams
          Wagner RS2 Evo T3 Exhaust Mani
          034 3" Downpipe and custom 3" Exhaust (no cats)
          Wagner Inlet Manifold
          Twin Sidemount Intercoolers-Bar and Plate Type.
          RS2 MAF (in usual location)
          APR R1 Diverter Valve
          Standard AAN Throttle Body
          Angus

          (1984 ur quattro)

          Comment

          • prj
            S2Forum Zealot
            • Mar 2010
            • 6308
            • Country: Estonia

            #215
            Try measuring the pressure drop through your intake system.
            Measure pressure simultaneously at the turbo outlet (WGFV bung for example) and in the inlet manifold.

            It could be possible that the slow spoolup you see is due to those twin intercoolers not flowing very well.
            http://tuner.ee - http://www.facebook.com/tuner.ee

            Comment

            • Billman
              S2Forum Freak
              • Nov 2004
              • 4129

              #216
              Yes that was also my thought. Most probably your IC setup causes a big pressure drop.
              Go Holset or Go RS4

              Comment

              • DJones
                S2Forum Fiend
                • Jun 2005
                • 2020
                • Country: United Kingdom

                #217
                Take one out and try it, so long as you dont sit at WOT it wont hurt for testing.

                I took one of mine out and there were no discernable difference with the exception of logging higher temps..

                Darren.

                Comment

                • Billman
                  S2Forum Freak
                  • Nov 2004
                  • 4129

                  #218
                  Don't know if you tried but you should maybe try another WG. maybe it is not sealing properly.
                  Go Holset or Go RS4

                  Comment

                  • URquattroGus
                    S2Forum Maniac
                    • Aug 2007
                    • 547
                    • Country: United Kingdom

                    #219
                    Originally posted by prj
                    Try measuring the pressure drop through your intake system.
                    Measure pressure simultaneously at the turbo outlet (WGFV bung for example) and in the inlet manifold.

                    It could be possible that the slow spoolup you see is due to those twin intercoolers not flowing very well.
                    This sounds very sensible. can anyone elaborate a bit more on how best to do this.

                    My boost guage takes pressure from the iinlet manifold I think, so could I not use that to get a manifold pressure reading.

                    And then what, pressurise the system onto the turbo outlet like I do when leak testing? or should I be connecting in place of the air filter for this one?

                    I was also going to use a infra red thermometer to try and work out intercooler efficiency or at least the difference in charge and inlet temps (or do I have to tap in a temp ender!)

                    Don't think I can shorten the pipework much really.

                    Also going to read through this:



                    Maybe the intercoolers themselves aren't great. Need to measure pressure drop first, but not exactly sure the best wasy to do that (as above)
                    Angus

                    (1984 ur quattro)

                    Comment

                    • prj
                      S2Forum Zealot
                      • Mar 2010
                      • 6308
                      • Country: Estonia

                      #220
                      Originally posted by URquattroGus
                      This sounds very sensible. can anyone elaborate a bit more on how best to do this.

                      My boost guage takes pressure from the iinlet manifold I think, so could I not use that to get a manifold pressure reading.

                      And then what, pressurise the system onto the turbo outlet like I do when leak testing? or should I be connecting in place of the air filter for this one?
                      Okay, you have one boost gauge already connected to the inlet manifold.
                      Get a second boost gauge. Connect this second boost gauge with a T-Piece to the hose that is going from the turbo into the WGFV.

                      Floor the car with both gauges connected.
                      Not the difference in pressure during full boost and also during ramp up.

                      This difference is the pressure drop across your intake.

                      Of course you can get a better and more scientific result by connecting two MAP sensors and then logging them. But that's a bit more complex, even if you have a data logger.
                      http://tuner.ee - http://www.facebook.com/tuner.ee

                      Comment

                      • DJones
                        S2Forum Fiend
                        • Jun 2005
                        • 2020
                        • Country: United Kingdom

                        #221
                        Angus

                        You need to test when in practice, i.e. not a static pressure test.

                        You need (Ideally) two boost gauges, one connected as close to the turbo as possible (housing if you can) and the other on the inlet manifold. Take in for a drive and monitor the drop from housing to inlet manifold.

                        I did mine and the drop was very slight. I think the twin inter coolers win on air speed but do have the potential to drop pressure. It needs to be as unrestricted as possible, no tight bends etc..

                        Hope it helps..

                        PS but, as said, do check your waste gate as creep would have a significant impact on spool.

                        Comment

                        • Billman
                          S2Forum Freak
                          • Nov 2004
                          • 4129

                          #222
                          Please also post a pictures of the filter location/connection to the turbo. If it is like this maybe it is also restricting flow to the turbo in addition to the twin IC setup.

                          That IC in front of the oil cooler is big?

                          Last edited by Billman; 31 January 2012, 14:30.
                          Go Holset or Go RS4

                          Comment

                          • prj
                            S2Forum Zealot
                            • Mar 2010
                            • 6308
                            • Country: Estonia

                            #223
                            I doubt that will cause that much restriction, the pressure drop in the intake is usually rather small. It'd have to be really messed up to cause a high pressure drop.
                            You can measure intake pressure drop by connecting the boost gauge to the intake though and seeing how much vacuum there is on boost.
                            http://tuner.ee - http://www.facebook.com/tuner.ee

                            Comment

                            • Billman
                              S2Forum Freak
                              • Nov 2004
                              • 4129

                              #224
                              maybe, but I see he uses 2x180 degrees pipes + MAF + Filter (no name?)
                              Go Holset or Go RS4

                              Comment

                              • prj
                                S2Forum Zealot
                                • Mar 2010
                                • 6308
                                • Country: Estonia

                                #225
                                Originally posted by Billman
                                maybe, but I see he uses 2x180 degrees pipes + MAF + Filter (no name?)
                                I don't think it's going to matter much honestly at this horsepower level.
                                Now if he had like 800 horsepower, I'd take a second look

                                All the pressure drops can be measured though, and it's not exactly a hard job, so no point to guess.
                                http://tuner.ee - http://www.facebook.com/tuner.ee

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