Modifying Motronic 2.3.2 ECU hardware and software.

[vwnut8392]

ah, he's replacing the MAF with a MAP sensor. im personally shopping for a VEMS setup for my car now, i personally would never buy a chip set for my car with such extreme modifications unless i had a full understanding of how they work so if there is an issue i can correct it on my own with having to call on anyone. dont get me wrong as i enjoy this as a hobby only though but when the tough get going get standalone. im sure if i erven bought chips from PRJ he would have gone to any length to protect his work with encryption and such plus if i requested an XDF for tunerpro with my chip so i could tune my car further that would be out of the question. i like being able to tweak my cars and mess with the electronics in them, if i cant do that than whats the point of me even building my car anymore? Im starting to feel that no one here wants me posting any of this information really, i mean if hounding me for posting my findings is a problem i'll take what little info i have elsewhere. Yes i know PRJ does great work with M2.3.2 but i know i wont ever get to experience or experiment with any of his work/achievements unless i shuck out money every single time he develops something new so i have no interest in it, i believe that if a guy wants to tune his car let him because there are plenty of people out there to make a living off of that simply want a chip that dont care about special and specific tunes because they arent running custom setups but just mere off the shelf upgrades. I admire him for his dedication to making M2.3.2 go far beyond the boundarys of what bosch ever intended it.

anyhow, back on topic please. This thread is 5 pages deep and no one can assist in atleast in the basic tuning of the M2.3.2 ECU? I've been toying with the boost the boost chip for a week now and i jsut cant seem to get it right, like i dont see an increase in boost no matter what i do to it. I've noticed my wastegate opening eariler since i messed with that pair of maps but other than that i still see nothing higher than 12PSI at the top of my rev range. i figured there are 3 maps that only need touched but 6 over all because of the doubling of the chip. another thing is i've tried to put on my ostrich 2 on the boost side and sometimes it will start and act fine other times the car wont run, im not sure if its the ECU reacting to the emulator or my emulator's battery is going bad or the ribbon cable is just getting worn out so im stuck burning chips again over and over till i see some changes. i was curious as to what i might have to do to the boost chip to just do away with its boost control so i can put a simple manual boost controller on it. on the chip would i just raise all of the maps to the top and leave the N75 plugged? that seems to be the logical way of doing so but its motronic and something that simple normally doesnt work. I do like the ECU's boost control somewhat but for myself i dont see an advantage to having the electronic boost control if its not easily adjustable like an aftermarket electronic boost controller.

[andy10v]

Not the proper way of doing it, and will probably only give you limited information but have you compared a stock chip to a stage 1 chip? I would have thought that would have the least changes. I doubt it would help understand how the ECU actually works, and let you sort injector sizes properly etc, but may let you know what you can mess with.

I don't think anybody objects to you posting your findings. However there are very few people who have the information, and people are not just going to give you work they have spent years on.

And yeah if you want to be able to tinker with ease, standalone makes sense.

[prj]

ah, he's replacing the MAF with a MAP sensor.

No, I'm not replacing anything with anything. I just remove the MAF and use the MAP sensor that is already present in the ECU.

Also, seems to run just fine:


Gained 400 rpm in spool after we removed the aftermarket boost controller and mapped it on Motronic. Go figure.

[pasbogdan]

i like being able to tweak my cars and mess with the electronics in them, if i cant do that than whats the point of me even building my car anymore?

You can build it and pay for a map.
It is like complaining that you could not make your own tires.Some things worth be made"inside" and others bought.

[UrS4boy]

Bosch Motronic is like Microsoft (or Apple OS). They are closed (information-wise) nobody is going to give away the "secrets" that it took them years to figure out.

VEMS is like Linux OS. Open for the most part. Lots of users who *want* to share info. Lots of base maps for different hardware combinations. Lots of people who want to share their knowledge because VEMS is like a community (of users).

To me, if you want to be able to tune your own car, you are better off going VEMS. You'll be much happier.

http://www.efiexpress.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=1&products_id=1

[vwnut8392]

Bosch Motronic is like Microsoft (or Apple OS). They are closed (information-wise) nobody is going to give away the "secrets" that it took them years to figure out.

VEMS is like Linux OS. Open for the most part. Lots of users who *want* to share info. Lots of base maps for different hardware combinations. Lots of people who want to share their knowledge because VEMS is like a community (of users).

To me, if you want to be able to tune your own car, you are better off going VEMS. You'll be much happier.

http://www.efiexpress.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=1&products_id=1

I like your point of view on motronic VS VEMS . i think your right too, VEMS is the direction i should head, the more i read on it the nicer the community is toward helping each other and the capabilities of VEMS is virrtually limitless. im really interested in the bluetooth add-on and the android app, i dont see that coming for motronic any time soon. really if im going to spend money im going to spend it on something thats flexable. im now leaning on getting it from EFIexpress or lugtronic. everyone says marc swanson is a great person to work with especially my one friend who used to live near his shop and got his VEMS setup for his URS4 there, but on the other hand getting it from kevin black at lugtronic.com seems like a better idea because kevin is always over the hill from my place working with mark morris on his 10 second rabbit GTI not to mention he's always on the dyno down my buddy's shop. having kevin's setup with him around would probably be the best choice as its like having live tech support if something goes horribly wrong plus he can help me dial in the audi on the dyno. well looks like im gonna start selling off some of my goodies and get me VEMS. cheers you gentleman and good luck with your M2.3.2 battle because i now know its an ugly battle.

[UrS4boy]

... im now leaning on getting it from EFIexpress or lugtronic. everyone says marc swanson is a great person to work with especially my one friend who used to live near his shop and got his VEMS setup for his URS4 there,..... cheers you gentleman and good luck with your M2.3.2 battle because i now know its an ugly battle.

I don't know Kevin Black but I have met Marc Swanson and know that he knows the AAN inside and out.

As for the Motronic "battle", there isn't one. Dmitri (prj) has forged ahead on his own volition and discovered many things about the details of Motronic that other people couldn't find and only speculated about. Prj is a world leader in knowledge of the AAN/ABY/ADU Motronic ECU. No battles.

Oddly enough, I see at the EFI Express website that Marc S. is now offering custom Motronic tuning to his customers. Full circle.

[vwnut8392]

I don't know Kevin Black but I have met Marc Swanson and know that he knows the AAN inside and out.

As for the Motronic "battle", there isn't one. Dmitri (prj) has forged ahead on his own volition and discovered many things about the details of Motronic that other people couldn't find and only speculated about. Prj is a world leader in knowledge of the AAN/ABY/ADU Motronic ECU. No battles.

Oddly enough, I see at the EFI Express website that Marc S. is now offering custom Motronic tuning to his customers. Full circle.

Kevin is a very well known tuner on the east coast. check his site out a www.lugtronic.com and check out the drag cars he's been involved with tuning/building. the most impressive to me is the 500WHP stock MK3 GTI 12V VR6 that goes into the 9's. no one has made that kind of power on a stock bottom end and it lasted very long. Kevins tuning skill is impressive and i feel thats why this car held together for a few years of passes that fast. i've seen most of the cars on his site in person run at pittsburgh raceway park and their no joke, also 3/4 them are driven there to race and not trailered there so that once again comes back to tuning and reliablilty. over all a 9 second street car is like a dream. lol.

Its still a battle to me when theres 2 people on the planet who know anything and wont talk about it other than some videos showing an end result and alot of people there aspiring to do some basic tuning on their cars instead their giving up or going on to standalone like myself. this attitude is going to push more and more people like myself to VEMS instead of sticking with the stock ECU. i know there are people out there that dont care about tuning and just want fast and thats cool with me but i want more. i mean with all the talk of invested money in development and the time one of these chip sets should be a 1000.00 and thats just how everyone makes it sound. for a 1000.00 and i cant adjust anything if i change up my engine isnt worth a crap to me, for 1450.00 i can get VEMS from kevin and tune till my hearts content plus i have plenty more options than motronic will ever have. thats great he busted a bunch of myths but im personally not impressed. maybe in another 10 years it will be like hondata for S-cars but by that time i think most people that want to tune their cars will have migrated to VEMS or whatever outstanding stanalone fuel system is available. Basically what im getting at is no tuner will ever squeeze a penny out of me to tune a factory ECU. I'd rather waste money blowing up engines trying to do it myself than pay for a tune that doesnt even match my car's modifications let alone i cannot make any adjustments for new modifications. i apologize if i seem like a **** but im just tired of people that sit high on the hog and look down on people because they achieved something that they think no one else is capable of. im sure this post will get this thread knocked off of here and thats fine, im not going to be heart broken over it.thanks for atleast liking what i've posted here and i hope it sticks around for others to learn from because im done. i'll stop trying to drag motronic out of the darkness and leave it to the professionals.

[UrS4boy]

I would say you've tried but the reality is those with the hard won Motronic knowledge aren't going to give it to some amateur "kid" (sorry ) who feels entitled to it just because he wants it. Never going to happen. You've taken your shot and you weren't convincing enough in your arguements. It's never going to happen. Don't waste more energy whining about it. Time to move on.

Try VEMS for awhile. Maybe once you've got it figured, you might be knowledgible enough to tackle the Motronic ECU again.

Well, that's my opinion anyway.

[Billman]

I think all sides are right at one point. The people that want to tune their cars they will tune it themselves either Motronic or standalone. I am sure Prj or anyone in that matter would share their info and knowledge if they knew that the people would only use that info for their own cars and not trying to sell it/map other cars. In a couple of years the M2.3.2 cars will be that few so that people will go either generic or standalone.
At that point people with knowledge like Prj will move further to new ECUs for a new market (like Mihnea did) and then maybe they will share more of what they found out/coded/programmed that they sell for the time being.

There is no reason to argue with no one about it since some of us are doing it for hobby but others earn a living. I am a periodontist and my car runs with Vems. If I had that knowledge I would like to tune my old motornic ECU just for the fun of it. If not I will find another way to amuse myself with my hobby..... i.e. right now I am restoring a Honda CB-1 I got from a friend.

If you like continue that thread with Info on what you find on Motronic. If someone else wants to share something they will do.

[Sir Buff]

Few people have the skills to understand Motronic.
So, don't cry like a little girl and go buying VEMS.

[blackS2]

I "wasted" hours, days and months at discovering the M2.3.2. Did also some discovering with prj in RS2 maps and constants once upon a time. So this all ended in doing basic mapping for RS2 ecu by using ostrich emulator. But there was a time, I was not able to do any more progress in discovering the rest of the ecu without getting trough the assembler stuff. I decided to change to VEMS at this point. I know exactly how much effort it takes to simply go to the point I was and there was a lot more to do. And I also would never give my results away for free. So I don't get people complaining here.

Also getting trough the VEMS stuff took a lot of time cause there is no such thing like a manual, so I'm writing my own. I'm on page 195 now . Fortunately most high power S2 in Germany are converted to VEMS now. But VEMS has some inconsistency you have to figure out. I think thats because of the open community structure of VEMS. You also have to spend much time on idle and cold start, things that work perfectly on M2.3.2 cars from factory. Even with high power.

Today I'm doing ME7 stuff with OLS300 and a lot more progress - so thats my new hobby . But one issue comes along now: My S2 feels more an more old fashioned after driving so much hours in RS4/RS6 so I'm thinking about selling it more and more .

You have to offer something, to get something back. This is the simple rule.

[Billman]

Few people have the skills to understand Motronic.
So, don't cry like a little girl and go buying VEMS.

You don't need to Understand motronic like you don't need to understand VEMS. You just need to know what map does what. That why there are XDF files. They are like translators. You put it in and then when you open the motronic file the maps have titles and values instead of FF00 and stuff.

[blackS2]

You don't need to Understand motronic like you don't need to understand VEMS. You just need to know what map does what. That why there are XDF files. They are like translators. You put it in and then when you open the motronic file the maps have titles and values instead of FF00 and stuff.

[martinws]

Dmitri should run a seminar on the basics and charge for it. I was reading PPC today and Dave Walker(emerald tuning) is talking about doing that to stop people always asking about it.