Friday Fairytale (WARNING: contains Brake Porn)

[UR-S4]

Development is at an advanced stage.................all on & working,handbrake cables & even backplates,new fuel tank,every suspension mounting,new Bilstiens,new wishbones .Just got to finnish everything else now !! Samco coolant,hoses,pas pump,remove the quick shift,renew exhaust manifold gaskets & missing stuts,oh and mot.Oh and mot tronicas golf,Nearly there then !!! Photos soon.

[s2avant]

Having got the S2 back for the weekend (see forthcoming thread about me trashing the dag-dag ) I can say that the rear brakes are working a treat

I've not given them a proper test yet but I can tell already that a lot of the nosediving from the 8 pot fronts has been cancelled out. This is no doubt a combination of the stronger rear brakes and the stiffer dampers, bushes etc.

When all the work is finished there will be a new thread with plenty of pictures and technical info from myself and the Wizard.

Once again Jason (the wizard) has worked his magic in sorting out the handbrake cable issue and getting it all working with OE bits

Ben

[Ross]

Was there any issues fitting the rear brake set-up then Ben? What's this with the handbrake cables?

I ask I am planning on sourcing a few 'spare' parts from our good friend across the 'puddle' in NI. Will the parts you've sent him be an easy fit or do I need to factor in any modification?

Cheers
Ross

[s2avant]

The parts our good friend has will be a straight fit. The handbrake cables and flexi lines are the tricky bit. We used the S4V8 flexis but fitted them slightly differently to give enough length. The handbrake cable was a fairly easy fix involving moving the outer sleeve slightly. We still have an issue with a very high handbrake lever to iron out but other than that it is plain sailing.

One other thing to note is that you will need to remove your old back plates and either leave them off (not ideal) or fit the B5 RS4 rear back plates. These need to be cut slightly to allow clearance for the caliper.

I will gather together all the pictures Jason has taken during the installation and start a new thread very soon.

Ben

[zlobo]

How heavy are those front disks

[zlobo]

i also wondering how big those brake pads are, how much room do they need on the brake surfice 70mm ?? 60mm? and how long is it from the end of the disk to the hub?

[quattro]

So what is the actual all in price on the RS6 upgrade then?

[s2avant]

You would need to talk to Bry about the full kit price as he manufactures the brackets and has a contact who supplies him the OE calipers, disc and pads at a very good discount.

Ben

[Jamo]

Ben where's the rear brake porn thread?

[s2avant]

Coming soon I've been a busy boy and my car has been at the garage since August 2006. I need to get the pictures from Jason so i can do a proper thread about it.

You'll be able to see them in the flesh at GTi. The last time my S2 was at a forum gathering was GTi 2006 so it's about time I dragged it out again

Ben

[volcano rs]

ben does your car go fast enough to need those brakes ?

[Dubbedup]

Fantastic.

[NEO]

Hey man!

Nice pr0n! Doing the same upgrade here and to spice it up a bit more I also use the touareg splash shields with the air scoops. You can see my brake porn pics at www.irry.com/neo .

But I do wonder if you have any blueprint on that adapter you built? I'm not building one that looks like that but my measurements is kinda odd. So I would like something to compare with. What I end up with is a non symetrical adapter. Some days ago I built a new prototype from wood just to see how my measurements was. And they're not bad, not bad at all... Needs a little adjustment since I have a clearance of 1.8mm between upper part of caliper and inside of the wheel. At the bottom that space is 2.3 mm. Now when thinking about it, .5 mm is not that much of a difference as it looked like. I might remember the numbers wrong, but the adapter needs to be adjusted so the caliper is moved down a lil bit. Guess it works like this to but I'm just one of those that wants it perfect.

But anyways... My FIRST sketches of my adapter can be found here, observe that it ain't 100%! Some measurements in that PDF are confirmed erranous. So I strongly advice ppl to NOT manufacture anything from these sketches: http://www.irry.com/neo/bilder/temp/.../okadapter.pdf

Would be interesting with input from you other guys how you built your adapters. I want a solid adapter that looks like the RS6 one but bolts on to the S2. Want to minimize the ammount of bolts in it. Therefore I go for the "original look"...

And regarding the master cylinder upgrade. I for sure will look for a replacement for the original one. I mean, spending like 2.5k EUR on a brake upgrade and then beeing to cheap to not spend 200EUR on a mc that might be the difference of life and death seems stoooopid to me. The mc on the RS2 must have been upgraded for a reason. And it's really strange that the upgrade only happened on LHD's RS2s. Maybe LHD drivers brakes more?

But instead of debating the capability of the original mc it would be interesting to know what mc that is a straight swap on the S2. Should one go for RS2 or something else? Maybe some porche flavour or the RS6 one. And how much around it has to be rebuilt? What I can remember from the upgraded RS2, the whole assembly with brake fluid container looks a tad different.

...oh and btw. I think I have gotten obsessed with brakes. Is that normal?

Well I've only gone and bloody done it. My Avant is now sporting the RS6 8 pots I've been going on about for months.

As you may know my car was fitted with RS2 big reds and A8 323x30mm discs. They were suffering from the age old problem of corrosion behind the plates and hence made an awful racket as the pads weren't releasing from the discs properly so off they came. The new calipers needed something meaty to grip so a set of 365x34mm Phaeton W12/V10 discs were the order of the day.

Here is a side by side comparision of the old and new discs.

All that was needed was a bracket to attach it all together. This is where Bry and AndyP step in. Off went a caliper and disc along with a knuckle for them to play with and they came up with an ingeniously simple bracket. As it was there idea and engineering I will leave the floor open for Bry and Andy to tell you all about that bit.

The bracket bolts to the knuckle:


and then the RS6 caliper carrier is reversed and bolted to the bracket:


I must admit to being quite suprised that the whole lot fits on to an S2 so easily. You can see from the pics below how much clearance there is all around the bracket and disc assemblies. It's like it was meant to be.


The caliper attaches to the reversed carrier and the whole thing is complete

The only other concern was whether the wheel would fit over the new setup. I use 15mm spacers with the S8 rims and this gave plenty of clearance. In fact the caliper is only about 3mm closer to the spokes of the wheel than the old porsche setup we removed.



So, I here you all ask, are they any good?

Basically the answer is Hell Yeah!!!

The pedal travels a lot further before it does anything but once you get past the no brakes feeling it is just as easy to modulate as the porsche setups I have had fitted previously. In fact in normal driving it is no different. It's when you push the pedal that bit further down that you start to notice the amount of braking force you can apply. I have yet to test them in anger but even on the few stops where I have used them a bit harder the brake force is phenomenal. it is going to be very easy to lock them at speed so I need to adapt to the new pedal position/travel.

Suffice to say if you behind me at speed and you see my brake lights it's probably going to be too late for you to stop

Ben

[NEO]

Wooow guys... Not many answers here...

Hey man!

Nice pr0n! Doing the same upgrade here and to spice it up a bit more I also use the touareg splash shields with the air scoops. You can see my brake porn pics at www.irry.com/neo .

But I do wonder if you have any blueprint on that adapter you built? I'm not building one that looks like that but my measurements is kinda odd. So I would like something to compare with. What I end up with is a non symetrical adapter. Some days ago I built a new prototype from wood just to see how my measurements was. And they're not bad, not bad at all... Needs a little adjustment since I have a clearance of 1.8mm between upper part of caliper and inside of the wheel. At the bottom that space is 2.3 mm. Now when thinking about it, .5 mm is not that much of a difference as it looked like. I might remember the numbers wrong, but the adapter needs to be adjusted so the caliper is moved down a lil bit. Guess it works like this to but I'm just one of those that wants it perfect.

But anyways... My FIRST sketches of my adapter can be found here, observe that it ain't 100%! Some measurements in that PDF are confirmed erranous. So I strongly advice ppl to NOT manufacture anything from these sketches: http://www.irry.com/neo/bilder/temp/.../okadapter.pdf

Would be interesting with input from you other guys how you built your adapters. I want a solid adapter that looks like the RS6 one but bolts on to the S2. Want to minimize the ammount of bolts in it. Therefore I go for the "original look"...

And regarding the master cylinder upgrade. I for sure will look for a replacement for the original one. I mean, spending like 2.5k EUR on a brake upgrade and then beeing to cheap to not spend 200EUR on a mc that might be the difference of life and death seems stoooopid to me. The mc on the RS2 must have been upgraded for a reason. And it's really strange that the upgrade only happened on LHD's RS2s. Maybe LHD drivers brakes more?

But instead of debating the capability of the original mc it would be interesting to know what mc that is a straight swap on the S2. Should one go for RS2 or something else? Maybe some porche flavour or the RS6 one. And how much around it has to be rebuilt? What I can remember from the upgraded RS2, the whole assembly with brake fluid container looks a tad different.

...oh and btw. I think I have gotten obsessed with brakes. Is that normal?

[s2avant]

Neo,

Unfortunately I don't have any measurements for my brackets as they were made by Bry and AndyP. I supplied them with a caliper and disc and along with a suspension strut they fashioned the brackets. As you can see though we used a bracket on bracket which some people have commented is not the ideal solution but has worked perfectly in my application without any problems.

As for master cylinder upgrades I have investigated them and still don't think it is neccessary. My setup has been tested thoroughly with normal driving, agressive use/abuse and genuine emergency stops and I have never had a problem with progressiveness or pedal travel/feel. Several people have driven my car and even more have been in it and all have been impressed by the performance and ease of use of the brakes. The offer is still out there that anyone who wants to try them out is welcome to have a go

If we had any doubts regarding the safety of the brakes my car wouldn't be on the road. I am not going to put my friends and family (not to mention other road users) at risk just to have some bling behind my alloys. We spent a lot of time planning and investigating the upgrade before any parts went on the car.

It's a popular misconception that the RS6 has a bigger master cylinder but in reality it is the same size as the S2 one. In fact the upgraded RS2 unit is no bigger either. All use the same 25.4mm cylinder. People havea habit of assuming that because a part number changes then it must be bigger or better than the earlier number.

Ben