3b motor to 500bhp posible? without any problems?

[Jonnybravo]

It does make me laugh that anytime this is mentioned people bring up the video of jonus beating him on a race track.

Comparing like to like lets see the times for the audi like i posted for the Evo.

The evo IS faster as that has been proven, with gearbox issues always holding that car back it is believed it would be doing 8 second passes and i assume with the new layout he will achieve that.

Its a argument that can never actuallly be proven by either me or you though so it may be easier for the thread if we leave it at that

[Jamo]

But I think it is wrong to say as Jamo did that the 3B dizzy DO NOT work over 500hp. I think there are reliable options and that was the point with my first answer.

WHEN did I say that?

People see what they want to see

3B ignition is just not equipped to handle 500 bhp

This is true in standard form without serious mods it is not and even with mods it's not as reliable as coil packs

[Jamo]

Well, I think someone did quite a few 9,2 runs with t89q on quarter equipped with original 01e tranny and 1360kg. Dynoing "only" 970hp.

Not hating anything, not claiming a thing, just (once again) pointing out, that there are too many variables to compare dyno figures if not done on same dyno, same day, same way.

So yes, I partly agree with Johnny.

Still, see no point why not to upgrade from dizzy to direct fire when aiming to 500hp, since the procedure and the parts are not that much more complicated than upgrading and updating the dizzy system.

Audi sport used dizzy at mid 80's, as there was no reasonable solution to go direct fire that time. Engine managements have evolved a fair bit since then. We need to remember they built the silliest I5's almost 25 years ago. How was Your PC running streaming video on 1985?

[magarv]

Well, I think someone did quite a few 9,2 runs with t89q on quarter equipped with original 01e tranny and 1360kg. Dynoing "only" 970hp.

Not hating anything, not claiming a thing, just (once again) pointing out, that there are too many variables to compare dyno figures if not done on same dyno, same day, same way.

So yes, I partly agree with Johnny.

Still, see no point why not to upgrade from dizzy to direct fire when aiming to 500hp, since the procedure and the parts are not that much more complicated than upgrading and updating the dizzy system.

Audi sport used dizzy at mid 80's, as there was no reasonable solution to go direct fire that time. Engine managements have evolved a fair bit since then. We need to remember they built the silliest I5's almost 25 years ago. How was Your PC running streaming video on 1985?

I agrre with you Repo, Dynio figures are always only a reference. I didnt start the disussion about this and the engine is Dynoed at Vidar Strand (VS Motor) a well know tuner and in a calibrated and adjusted Dyno. If it is 950, 1150, or 1065hp it is till a hell of a lot more than 500 and still working fine. Just got a little provoked by "I dont belive dyno figures from Norway" " Because here in England we got a car with less HP that runs a faster 1/4 mile"

When it comes to ignition, as I also mentioned earlier, Yes of coarse a new direct fire system is better, but it is not the only option. It all depends on the time and money you would like to spend. The MSD option to the 3B motronic is a matter of connecting 3 wires + the coil and at a cost less than 400usd. And the car still as streetable as it was.
Also know about an street legal norwegian S2 dynoed 790hp (Lets say 600hp for you guys since the numbers are from Norway )with this setup and it has been on the streets for over 3 years and doing fine.

This thread is, as usual WAY of topic, but it is not correct that it is not possible to run over 500hp with a 3B system as Jamo mentioned in the first answer THAT was my point of mentioning a 1065hp engine. I didnt start the Dyno discussion

[Jamo]

I agrre with you Repo, Dynio figures are always only a reference. I didnt start the disussion about this and the engine is Dynoed at Vidar Strand (VS Motor) a well know tuner and in a calibrated and adjusted Dyno. If it is 950, 1150, or 1065hp it is till a hell of a lot more than 500 and still working fine. Just got a little provoked by "I dont belive dyno figures from Norway" " Because here in England we got a car with less HP that runs a faster 1/4 mile"

When it comes to ignition, as I also mentioned earlier, Yes of coarse a new direct fire system is better, but it is not the only option. It all depends on the time and money you would like to spend. The MSD option to the 3B motronic is a matter of connecting 3 wires + the coil and at a cost less than 400usd. And the car still as streetable as it was.
Also know about an street legal norwegian S2 dynoed 790hp (Lets say 600hp for you guys since the numbers are from Norway )with this setup and it has been on the streets for over 3 years and doing fine.

This thread is, as usual WAY of topic, but it is not correct that it is not possible to run over 500hp with a 3B system as Jamo mentioned in the first answer THAT was my point of mentioning a 1065hp engine. I didnt start the Dyno discussion

AGAIN I DID NOT SAY THAT, I said it is not equipped to do so which is true.

Show me a car running on stock 3b ignition with no mods to it running high bhp?

[magarv]

WHEN did I say that?

People see what they want to see



This is true in standard form without serious mods it is not and even with mods it's not as reliable as coil packs

First page you wrote this:

Search forum for spark hop. Audiman managed to get to 480 bhp but then changed over to coils.

3B ignition is just not equipped to handle 500 bhp

Isnt that the same as saying it wont work over 500hp

And I dont see the MSD change as a serious mod, it is 3 wires and the change the coil? Cost of 400usd??

[magarv]

AGAIN I DID NOT SAY THAT, I said it is not equipped to do so which is true.

Show me a car running on stock 3b ignition with no mods to it running high bhp?

Hey, lets quit the hate I just tried to show you guys a way to tweak it for a low cost wich is "field proven" and works.

I dint start any dyno discussen or doubt any dyno figures here.

But hey if you guys say it dosnt work, I'll guess that is correct

[repo]

I think for 500hp it would be wise to swap new dizzy cap and missionary, not to mention the plug leads, if going for 500hp.

DIY 1.8T conversion, which happily supports 500hp, costs like a bit over 200 eur. Add used aby or aan ecu, and I think with some wire swapping/pin workout should do pretty good. I think cost wise it is pretty much on same area.

[Jamo]

First page you wrote this:



Isnt that the same as saying it wont work over 500hp

And I dont see the MSD change as a serious mod, it is 3 wires and the change the coil? Cost of 400usd??

No it is not

r.v. e·quipped, e·quip·ping, e·quips

To furnish with the qualities necessary for performance: an education that will equip you to handle such problems.

In other words in stock form it is not ready to handle the performance levels

[magarv]

No it is not

r.v. e·quipped, e·quip·ping, e·quips

To furnish with the qualities necessary for performance: an education that will equip you to handle such problems.

In other words in stock form it is not ready to handle the performance levels

Well sorry for my bad english and sorry for quoting You. I obviously hit a nerve or something

The thread starter Audi90rs, did not mention anything about not to do any tweaking. To reach 500bhp it is a lot of others things you have to change and I dont think my proposal is to much job compared to rest of the changes needed to reach 500hp

You didnt like that I qouted you he?

[Jonas_R]

I think for 500hp it would be wise to swap new dizzy cap and missionary, not to mention the plug leads, if going for 500hp.

DIY 1.8T conversion, which happily supports 500hp, costs like a bit over 200 eur. Add used aby or aan ecu, and I think with some wire swapping/pin workout should do pretty good. I think cost wise it is pretty much on same area.

Yeah or you could use coils from the newer Audi S4 with V8 engine, part number should be. 077 905 115Q

The coils need a bit of modification, but not to much of a hassle, should be fairly easy to see what needs to be remove to fit them.

I believe the coils are around 20euro per coil. You could be looking at around 300 euro for coils and ABY/AAn ECU. And then a bit of pin swapping in the ECU plug using S2central's Excel ark.

[Rocco]

Yeah or you could use coils from the newer Audi S4 with V8 engine, part number should be. 077 905 115Q

The coils need a bit of modification, but not to much of a hassle, should be fairly easy to see what needs to be remove to fit them.

I believe the coils are around 20euro per coil. You could be looking at around 300 euro for coils and ABY/AAn ECU. And then a bit of pin swapping in the ECU plug using S2central's Excel ark.

and then Jonas... 5 COILS,+ Used ABY,AAN ecu and 1 pin wire swap = 3B engine with the same ignition as ABY,RS2,AAN right?? all the other wires and sensor are the same ,and works well?? because it is some interesting for 3B owners and and it seems not a lot of hard work...


you Jonas...are u using 3B engine, AAN ecu and the ignition pin swap??? or did you changed ALL the Motronic wires?? and where do you have now the hall sensor??

[Sparxx]

hey guys,
there are so many ways to generate 500HP. And, if you don´t want to swap into the ABY ignition and hold onto the 3B ECU with the dizzy system you need to upgrade this. 500HP with std. 3B ignition is not really possible.

Why upgrading to ABY parts with the costs of ECU, coils, aso, when you only need to upgrade the dissy system. Ok, direct fire is more reliable and needs no further maintenance, but there are two ways for the goal.

There is a conversion with 5 cyl. VW parts to direct fire with ABY ECU.
The swap to OEM ABY ignition need the ABY ECU too.
Aftermarket ECU swap.

And, the OEM ABY ignition has a restriction on high output engines. Than you need to upgrade that system too, like the shown S4 coils.

And dyno comparing is one of the stupid things in business .......... I hate that ****. There is no other way to compare cars ............... only on direct street races/ head to head.
I can rig any dyno test/ sheet of paper. So I don´t believe in any dyno ........
Just my two €

[Jonnybravo]

I agree with the dyno comments Sparxx, too many variables to compare car to car but proper times tell you enough IMO

[MrVain]

Hmm

Jens Eklunds audi S4 did 970hp on the dyno... And it dit 9,21 on 402m and 256km/h ...
Im guessing it weight around 1400-1500kg..

Theres alot of high output cars in Scandinavia, but the Norris design car is ALOT lighter.. and I mean alot..

THis car ->

http://www.garaget.org/?car=37767&image=1608900

Has original pistons, still uses the old ignition, but with better coil i guess.
Original nonported head and 7A cams.. 600whp (weel hp)

Sorry for my bad english