Wiring Masters Needed B3 90q with AAN swap

[S2central.net]

LOL at that - seemingly lost in translation then

[UrS4boy]

Sorry to be pedantic but Dave - but I think it best not to confusion G4 with the notion of a 'firing pin' as you put it - it is a reference pin for the point at which the crankshaft is 62 degrees BTDC on Cyl #1 - the ECU uses that and counts teeth in between to ascertain the actual firing points at each cylinder... I know you know that - but other folk might get confused by association of G4 to the firing point.

I had never even used the term "firing" until today after I re-read the term in this diagram (posted above) (Note the description of item 3 in the top portion of the diagram):

[S2central.net]

Sorry to be pedantic but Dave - but I think it best not to confusion G4 with the notion of a 'firing pin' as you put it - it is a reference pin for the point at which the crankshaft is 62 degrees BTDC on Cyl #1 - the ECU uses that and counts teeth in between to ascertain the actual firing points at each cylinder... I know you know that - but other folk might get confused by association of G4 to the firing point.

[UrS4boy]

UrS4/S6 Connector Rack Call out with sensor PNs

... I will double check to see if the flywheel pin is still there and check to make sure the G28 and G4 sensors aren't in opposing electrical connectors.

The G4 crank position sensor has a black plug end that should be plugged into the black connector on the ECU harness, between the white (coil) connector and the grey G28 engine speed sensor connector (see diagrams below the PN diagram)

[UrS4boy]

Detailed G4 Crank Position Pin Location info (link)

.... I will double check to see if the flywheel pin is still there and check to make sure the G28 and G4 sensors aren't in opposing electrical connectors. When I am looking for the pin, should the pin be in the peek hole when the cam and crank are aligned or is it random. FWIW: I have a AAN flywheel not 7A combined with my stock transmission.

The pin is no in the view hole when you align the crank and cams to TDC (Cyl. 1) on the timing check. However, at that point, the G4 crank position (aka "firing" pin is underneath the G4 sensor, IF you take the G4 and G28 off), as shown in the diagram below. (More detailed info available here:
http://forums.quattroworld.com/s4s6/msgs/51259.phtml )

[Durr McDanks]

P.S. thank you guys for all your help so far really appreciated

[Durr McDanks]

I know its aligned I have check three times and the crank and cam dots are aligned. Second, the coils are grounded to the back of the cam cover and the POS units are deleted due to the 034 high output coil kit. The kit also comes with very specific instructions on how to hook up the brown and black connectors. I will double check to see if the flywheel pin is still there and check to make sure the G28 and G4 sensors aren't in opposing electrical connectors. When I am looking for the pin, should the pin be in the peek hole when the cam and crank are aligned or is it random.

FWIW: I have a AAN flywheel not 7A combined with my stock transmission.

If fuel pump is activated and fuel is getting to the rail then ECU is getting RPM signal from G28.... The fault code comes up cos its not running.

If you aren't getting spark then either G4 (crank pin) signal is missing or weak. ALternatively - the G40 (dissy/hall/camshaft) signal is missing, weak or arriving out of expected phase alignment.

This is where you need a scope to test this properly - The G40 pulse must encapsulate every alternate G4 (crank) pulse... If the dissy or timing belt alignment is wrong then the pulses don't line up properly and the ECU hasn't got enough information to determine where and when #1 is at ==> it doesn't spark or pulse injectors.

All of this assumes you have nominal 12V into coils, the POS units are wired correctly and the grounds are all good. Its easier when I wire these things up myself - diagnosing them ~4000 miles away is a bit trickier, but hopefully we are getting somewhere.

[Durr McDanks]

Now, I am getting 12.5V at the power leads for the coils after I found a better battery charger. I still have no spark but I know that I am getting fuel because there is fuel in the lines but I am NOT sure if its coming out of the injectors. I will check this.

Have you positively established that you have fuel at the fuel rail while the starter is engaged? Probably easiest to pull the injectors and fuel rail out of intake manifold as a unit, placing a glass jar under each of the five injectors and having somebody turn the ignition to start and see if anything comes out. If it does, you know that the FP relay is being activated.

I can't remember if you are getting 12V (or 11.3V) to the coils with the ignition just on (and not turned to START).

If you are getting fuel and have 12V at the coils, then it means, for some reason, the ECU does not know when to send the 12V to ground through the internal POS in the 034 HO coils. This goes back to not having the proper crank timing pin for the G4.

[S2central.net]

If fuel pump is activated and fuel is getting to the rail then ECU is getting RPM signal from G28.... The fault code comes up cos its not running.

If you aren't getting spark then either G4 (crank pin) signal is missing or weak. ALternatively - the G40 (dissy/hall/camshaft) signal is missing, weak or arriving out of expected phase alignment.

This is where you need a scope to test this properly - The G40 pulse must encapsulate every alternate G4 (crank) pulse... If the dissy or timing belt alignment is wrong then the pulses don't line up properly and the ECU hasn't got enough information to determine where and when #1 is at ==> it doesn't spark or pulse injectors.

All of this assumes you have nominal 12V into coils, the POS units are wired correctly and the grounds are all good. Its easier when I wire these things up myself - diagnosing them ~4000 miles away is a bit trickier, but hopefully we are getting somewhere.

[UrS4boy]

Sorry, would the fuel pump still pump if the G4 wasnt picking up the pin?

Have you positively established that you have fuel at the fuel rail while the starter is engaged? Probably easiest to pull the injectors and fuel rail out of intake manifold as a unit, placing a glass jar under each of the five injectors and having somebody turn the ignition to start and see if anything comes out. If it does, you know that the FP relay is being activated.

I can't remember if you are getting 12V (or 11.3V) to the coils with the ignition just on (and not turned to START).

If you are getting fuel and have 12V at the coils, then it means, for some reason, the ECU does not know when to send the 12V to ground through the internal POS in the 034 HO coils. This goes back to not having the proper crank timing pin for the G4.

[Durr McDanks]

Sorry, would the fuel pump still pump if the G4 wasnt picking up the pin?

[UrS4boy]

I didnt actually verify that there was a pin but I did put a zip tip in there and it was getting flicked, but I will check visually for a pin. Would the fuel pump be working if the G28 pin wasnt there?

The G28 sensor (RPM) counts teeth on the flywheel ring gear (135). It is the G4 that is looking for the pin. http://forums.quattroworld.com/s4s6/msgs/20986.phtml

[Durr McDanks]

I didnt actually verify that there was a pin but I did put a zip tip in there and it was getting flicked, but I will check visually for a pin. Would the fuel pump be working if the G28 pin wasnt there?

[UrS4boy]

Regardless of that sensor though I should get spark because the coils arent wired into the FPR right? I also went ahead and replaced the G28 sensor with a new one just to make sure. Also, I am getting fuel as well but I havent check if it actually sprays out the injectors... still working on getting spark.

I went and double checked the timing and its spot on so its looking like something is off with the ECU. FWIW, Its tuned by MRC. I will take a look at that list and try to find someone in the area with a AAN motor thanks. Just in case, could I get a way off contacting Steve?

When you replaced the G28, did you pull the G4 and G28 together as a unit? If so, did you happen to check to see whether your flywheel has a crank pin, like the one shown here (no flywheel pin = no crank position sensor G4 signal = no spark):

[Durr McDanks]

Regardless of that sensor though I should get spark because the coils arent wired into the FPR right? I also went ahead and replaced the G28 sensor with a new one just to make sure. Also, I am getting fuel as well but I havent check if it actually sprays out the injectors... still working on getting spark.

I went and double checked the timing and its spot on so its looking like something is off with the ECU. FWIW, Its tuned by MRC. I will take a look at that list and try to find someone in the area with a AAN motor thanks. Just in case, could I get a way off contacting Steve?