water / methanol injection questions

[Bruce-m]

Unfortunately I'm not as clued up as you guys on your ECU's, We supply kits to so many different customer cars we just can't know everything on every car.

We say to always tune for around 11.8 & stick with about 20-30% Meth.

We don't do mapping, we purely supply kits and fit a few for customers who aren't confident enough to do it, Our kits could well of been fitted on S2's but I wouldn't know as when customers order off our website or ebay shop they simply supply engine CC and MAX BOOST + RPM so we can supply correct nozzle size they very rarely tell us what car it's going on.

If I could get some sponsorship info that would be great.

[Jamo]

If I could get some sponsorship info that would be great.

I've made the relevant people aware of your request

[prj]

We say to always tune for around 11.8 & stick with about 20-30% Meth.

AFR is based on what the car likes, not based on a fixed number.
Also, you say "tune for around xxx". My point is, most people here don't run a custom tune, they run a pre-set chipset.
The reason the RS4 got gains, is because it's engine management is a lot, a huge lot more advanced, so it can actually to a certain extent tune itself.
Not so in our older cars.

If your controller can take a 0-5V signal as input instead of boost signal, then I think it could be possible to actually make the ECU control the meth based on the amount of air ingested, which is calculated from the MAF.

[Bruce-m]

We do a voltage kit which will work from any 0-5v signal.

On my skyline on the old ecu & my pulsar we ran a power fc, which doesn't have closed loop boost or lambda control, it's quite a basic ecu.

Both cars still picked up bhp, the pulsar 11bhp & the skyline 14.7bhp, both cars were mapped without water/Meth & ran base kits with just a boost switch.
The kits were fitted as purely a engine protector additive & if I picked up HP then great, the HP pick up came from cooler intake temps, even though both had massive FMIC.

Now I run a Link G4 ecu which has everything & controls the water/Meth & yes the gains are bigger & better but still I only have it as a safety additive & to keep power up on hot days.

[prj]

Running with just a boost switch will make the car bog when coming on boost.
Not an option for me personally.

I just checked and there is no real way to get an additional 0-5V signal out of the ecu...
What our ECU's do have is a fuel consumption signal, which should be analog (is it? need to check), this is basically equal to duty cycle, so could be fed into the controller's 0-5V input.

As for gains - as I said, really depends how the cars are tuned.
I personally see no reason to add a meth kit without properly mapping for it - too much work for too little reward, except on hot days of course.

[ChrisAudi80]

Been reading through this thread as I have been interested in water injection for a while.
It was very interesting to see that the Aquamist HFS-3 can be hooked into Motronic.

Because ambient temperatures in Thailand are 30C or more most of the time and easily higher (sometimes see 50C+ on the temp display), I have been considering water only injection for the S6, just to cool it down. When cruising at 140kmh or higher for longer periods or a few WOT blasts, the temperatures rise quickly. I am not worried about overheating so much, just got a new rad and replaced a few coolant hoses, but I want to keep IATs down as far as I can.

I do not really want to get an FMIC.

So, I have looked at AEM's system:
http://www.aemelectronics.com/1-gall...ection-kit-691 combined with:
http://www.aemelectronics.com/water-...mm-metric-1224
Those two kits together cost about USD650-700 depending where you buy.

The Aquamist HFS-3 system comes to about USD730, depending.

Then, there is the Snow Perf Stage 3 kit: http://www.snowperformance.net/product.php?pk=75
Similar price, but you probably want a few accessories.

So, considering I do not want to remap for 100% water injection, want it to lower my IATs without bogging, but want a system that is friendly to a tuning n00b like me, which kit should I go for, when funds allow?

[A80Avant]

if you are going to inject water only, then you dont really need a remap. If you are going to add more methanol than 30% and a large injector, then at full boost it might(or not) get the mixture a bit on the rich side, but shouldnt cause an issue.

However, i must say that most kits are boost/MAF controlled, which means they have a threshold of when to start injecting the water. When on cruise and off boost the only way to spray water is to have a specified button for it. Otherwise the ECUs will only spray once you go on boost only.

i have a snow perfomance kit with the high pressure pump of the 2 (i think the 220psi) and 1 injector behind the TPS. I have a controller which can alter the spray linearly depending on boost from a starting point to full which is adjustable. With a bit of logging and playing with it, i have a good result, as i use it for cooling purposes only as well, nothing fancy.

[ChrisAudi80]

if you are going to inject water only, then you dont really need a remap. If you are going to add more methanol than 30% and a large injector, then at full boost it might(or not) get the mixture a bit on the rich side, but shouldnt cause an issue.

However, i must say that most kits are boost/MAF controlled, which means they have a threshold of when to start injecting the water. When on cruise and off boost the only way to spray water is to have a specified button for it. Otherwise the ECUs will only spray once you go on boost only.

i have a snow perfomance kit with the high pressure pump of the 2 (i think the 220psi) and 1 injector behind the TPS. I have a controller which can alter the spray linearly depending on boost from a starting point to full which is adjustable. With a bit of logging and playing with it, i have a good result, as i use it for cooling purposes only as well, nothing fancy.

Yeah, I was reading through the exchange you had with prj on this subject.
prj mentioned that if you do not want to remap and only want to cool the intake air, then it might just be better to spray onto the IC itself. IIRC, I read that doing this lowers the IAT by approx 10%.

Cruising at 140-150kmh does not require boost on the S6. It runs 0.8-0.9b absolute,but the temp does go up a lot.
I was thinking it might be an idea to install temp sensors on the intake and outlet of the IC and use the signals from these to switch on spray when the air reaches a certain temperature.
EFI Express' basic Devil's Own kit can do this with the hobbs (on/off) switch. It would be nice to have a gauge showing IAT. Any way to do this easily? Can I get a signal from the AAN Motronic ECU for this to a gauge?

Which Snow kit do you have? The Stage 2 kit?

If I am going to get a kit and use boost signal, then I'd go for the AEM kit with injection monitor due to price.
I think if going off boost signal, then start spray at say 1.3b and full spray at 2.0b absolute.

However, would have to play with this as several people mention (slight) bogging if not tuning for it.