Audi RS2 Turbo whine/failure

[Golfboy666GTI]

Dave, just a quick note, I only look at the boost gauage every 6 months or if I think the car isnt performing., otherwise it just lives in the glove box.


Can you want point me in the right direction for some literature on the waste gate and how it runs .6 bar in limp mode?
I would like something to give these guys so the can understand how the system works.

[UrS4boy]

Dave, just a quick note, I only look at the boost gauage every 6 months or if I think the car isnt performing., otherwise it just lives in the glove box.Can you want point me in the right direction for some literature on the waste gate and how it runs .6 bar in limp mode? I would like something to give these guys so theY can understand how the system works.

Hmmm..unfortunate about the lack of boost gauge evidence. This won't help if they say (for whatever reasons) the boost must have gone to WARP 3. (say 30 psig (2.1 Bar gauge))

The 0.6 Bar (8.7 psig - ish) story is in the Moisture Trap link I previously provided in this thread (also with the N75 link)

[Golfboy666GTI]

Hmmm..unfortunate about the lack of boost gauge evidence. This won't help if they say (for whatever reasons) the boost must have gone to WARP 3. (say 30 psig (2.1 Bar gauge))

The 0.6 Bar (8.7 psig - ish) story is in the Moisture Trap link I previously provided in this thread (also with the N75 link)

They can only take my word for it that I saw 17PSI. Its not like the car has had some amazing performance that say 30PSI would provide.
It hasnt had the performance it should post rebuild IMO. I think a standard Golf Mk5 GTI would give it a run for its money, and they are only 200BHP.

I spoke again with the mechanic about the limp mode being .6 Bar, he said he would have to do some research on the ECU side of things. I dont know what hes likely to find here in New Zealand.
I also asked him why the turbo bearings arent damaged, he didnt have an answer.
I also passed on PRJ's thoughts that only an oil blockage or object getting into the blades should cause the turbo fail.
The mechanic also tells me via the turbo guy that the turbo shaft is stretched not bent.

[UrS4boy]

...I spoke again with the mechanic about the limp mode being .6 Bar, he said he would have to do some research on the ECU side of things. I dont know what hes likely to find here in New Zealand.

Nik: I have just updated my ECU MAP sensor post to include vacuum/boost line info and links to the Moisture Trap, etc. Feel free to pass this link along to the turbo guy:

http://forums.quattroworld.com/s4s6/msgs/20417.phtml

[prj]

You can run this turbo with the wastegate screwed shut and it still won't blow up.

BTDT.

[twoqu]

At the end of the day you will have to get them to declare why the turbo failed and how that is attributable to you.
As its never performed adequately since the rebuild its logical that was the cause. Assuming of course that you took the precaution of priming it after fitting and no foreign objects were poked into it and you never dismantled it prior to it being fitted. If you never fitted it yourself then the onus would be on whoever fitted it.
We can only theorise based on the odd bit of information.
I can think of a few ways that the shaft might have been stretched, both of which may occured during the rebuild process by someone unfamilar with an RS2 KKK versus a regular KKK. The RS2 has a l/h shaft which means it is loosened clockwise not anticlockwise. So if some gorrilla hangs of a socket expecting it to undo in the usual way that might stretch the shaft or damage something else. The same problem might occur after rebuild during the tightening process if it was over tightened. There is a very precise preload torque and a further angle tightening for the shaft nut. Indeed there might even be a shaft stretch specification.
Alternatively in theory the l/h shaft/nut should resist untightening but that assumes it was tightened correctly in the first place. If it loosened that might explain the axial play and subsequent damage.
Of course this is pure conjecture. I guess you could ask what specs he used to tighten the nut to and see what the response is.

[Golfboy666GTI]

At the end of the day you will have to get them to declare why the turbo failed and how that is attributable to you.
As its never performed adequately since the rebuild its logical that was the cause. Assuming of course that you took the precaution of priming it after fitting and no foreign objects were poked into it and you never dismantled it prior to it being fitted. If you never fitted it yourself then the onus would be on whoever fitted it.
We can only theorise based on the odd bit of information.
I can think of a few ways that the shaft might have been stretched, both of which may occured during the rebuild process by someone unfamilar with an RS2 KKK versus a regular KKK. The RS2 has a l/h shaft which means it is loosened clockwise not anticlockwise. So if some gorrilla hangs of a socket expecting it to undo in the usual way that might stretch the shaft or damage something else. The same problem might occur after rebuild during the tightening process if it was over tightened. There is a very precise preload torque and a further angle tightening for the shaft nut. Indeed there might even be a shaft stretch specification.
Alternatively in theory the l/h shaft/nut should resist untightening but that assumes it was tightened correctly in the first place. If it loosened that might explain the axial play and subsequent damage.
Of course this is pure conjecture. I guess you could ask what specs he used to tighten the nut to and see what the response is.

Very interesting, thanks for that.
Its great to be armed with that kind of knowledge.

BTW, a professional fitted the turbo.

[twoqu]

Very interesting, thanks for that.
Its great to be armed with that kind of knowledge.

BTW, a professional fitted the turbo.

Unfortunately I can think of a few examples of where a "professional" has ended a beautiful relationship with a car!
I doubt whether you will ever find out what the cause was as professionals are adept at covering their own rses usually by blaming the customer first. Its particularly gauling when you have to give them another go at fuccing it up in the interests of being reasonable, under UK law anyway. As I said previously its just me thinking aloud not a statement of fact.
I guess you might need to wipe your mouth on this one and move on. Not much point in using people who need to use the internet to work out how these vehicles function. Might as well do it yourself with some help from the forum. That way if you **** it up, you only have yourself to blame. If it works out there is the satisfaction of having done the job properly. Unless of course you are completely mechanically inept!

[Golfboy666GTI]

Nik: I have just updated my ECU MAP sensor post to include vacuum/boost line info and links to the Moisture Trap, etc. Feel free to pass this link along to the turbo guy:

http://forums.quattroworld.com/s4s6/msgs/20417.phtml

Thanks Dave.

[Golfboy666GTI]

The car is currently stored in a mates shed across the road from michanic less the turbo.
I plugged in my basic "lite" version of VAGCOM. Here is the fault report:



I guess fault 00515 is because the car isnt running?

And fault 00513 is whats been playing up?

http://www.s2-audi.co.uk/tech_articles/motronic/ecu_faults.htm

I havent heard from the turbo guy for a while which is fine by me as Im trying to get all the facts and info together.

[Golfboy666GTI]

Here is a pic of the vac pipe on the ECU:



Ive just got off the phone with the guy who rebuilt my turbo. Hes standing by is opinion that the the turbo has been over spinning trying to get to 20PSI odd. Thats what he believes the issue is.
He doesnt know anything about the car dropping into limp mode (.6 BAR) if the MAP doesnt get the correct vac reading.

All he has offered me is a new turbo for $1,900 NZD + GST

F@#%#%@&*!!!!

[Pat D]

He sounds like a right a**hole, and is definitely trying to squirm his way out of his own f*ck up.

You should perhaps hire one of these for a few hours, I'm sure accuracy is within 12 inches

[UrS4boy]

The car is currently stored in a mates shed across the road from michanic less the turbo. I plugged in my basic "lite" version of VAGCOM. Here is the fault report: I guess fault 00515 is because the car isnt running? And fault 00513 is whats been playing up?

Other way around. The 00513 code for the G28 engine speed sensor is ALWAYS going to show up when you pull the codes on an engine that is not running.

The 00515 G40 Hall Sender code is definitely something NOT to ignore. IrishS2 had that code once and it was real, as documented here:

http://forums.quattroworld.com/s4s6/msgs/139944.phtml

I accessed that post from this G40 Cam Position Sender post:

http://forums.quattroworld.com/s4s6/msgs/22580.phtml

Which I had accessed by clicking on the G40 Cam Position Sender label in the lower left middle of this diagram (all the other labels are hot links too):

http://members.shaw.ca/speedtek/UrS%20Engine%20Bay%20Device%20Map.html

[Golfboy666GTI]

Other way around. The 00513 code for the G28 engine speed sensor is ALWAYS going to show up when you pull the codes on an engine that is not running.

The 00515 G40 Hall Sender code is definitely something NOT to ignore. IrishS2 had that code once and it was real, as documented here:

http://forums.quattroworld.com/s4s6/msgs/139944.phtml

I accessed that post from this G40 Cam Position Sender post:

http://forums.quattroworld.com/s4s6/msgs/22580.phtml

Which I had accessed by clicking on the G40 Cam Position Sender label in the lower left middle of this diagram (all the other labels are hot links too):
http://members.shaw.ca/speedtek/UrS%...ice%20Map.html

Hey Dave, do you think the 00515 G40 Hall Sender code relates to my turbo issue?

[Rusty]

Standard map calls for 23-24 psi so wtf is this :corey: going on about. I'd be requesting at least the cost of the labour back and take your business elsewhere.

In the UK we have the citizens' advice bureau and trading standards to go to.