Disappointing Dyno Result

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  • jonnaz
    S2Forum Enthusiast
    • Aug 2009
    • 158
    • Country: United Kingdom

    #1

    Disappointing Dyno Result

    Hello.

    The car has been on the Dyno today for mapping. car is running VEMS so I have done the mapping however the result for power is down on where I expected it. The figure shown on the plot is Crank HP 483.6 and 440 lb/ft peak torque. I was expecting somewhere near this at the wheels. Or am I being over optimistic.

    The car is running a HX35 turbo.
    what I think is a china Large intercooler (Got with the car when I bought it)
    044 fuel pump relayed
    custom reverse intake manifold, this uses the standard 3b runners into the cylinders.
    intake and exhaust piping is all 3 inch.
    Tubular Exhaust Manifold, screamer pipe and Tial v44 Wastegate.
    v8 coil conversion

    I have attached the dyno plot and also my vems log for the run.

    The car to me seems to be restricted from 6000rpm as the torque and power drop off. it was always going rich at the top end on different boost levels indicating poor pumping / breathing efficiency of the engine. I think the restriction is on the inlet side, I suspected the Intercooler but Im not so sure anymore. could it be the inlet manifold? or the Cylinder head itself? the head is standard.

    Another ting I have noticed in the Log is; the spark angle recorded is about 7deg more that the value in the indicated cell of the ignition MAP. For info It is not Knocking.

    All comments welcome

    Project thread was here with more info on the spec.



    Thanks

    Alex
    Last edited by jonnaz; 1 July 2014, 11:27.
  • jonnaz
    S2Forum Enthusiast
    • Aug 2009
    • 158
    • Country: United Kingdom

    #2
    Attachments

    attachments
    Attached Files

    Comment

    • mike74
      S2Forum Maniac
      • Apr 2014
      • 615
      • Country: Scotland

      #3
      I'm no expert in mapping so can't really comment too much BUT I have heard of too small plug gaps giving similar problems. What have you got them set to?

      Comment

      • Billman
        S2Forum Freak
        • Nov 2004
        • 4129

        #4
        As you see it is going too rich above 6000 rpm
        Go Holset or Go RS4

        Comment

        • AQTdriver
          S2Forum Maniac
          • Jan 2011
          • 750
          • Country: United Kingdom

          #5
          I had 480 out of a standard engine with ported head and standard im and ic.. So you should be seeing around 550...
          I don't think the turbo is capable of much more..
          '93 S2 Avant breaking
          '95 S6 Avant sold
          '83 80 Quattro SWB
          '85 90 Quattro
          '85 200 Quattro 10V sold

          Comment

          • prj
            S2Forum Zealot
            • Mar 2010
            • 6308
            • Country: Estonia

            #6
            480hp is not bad at all for a hx35.
            Torque dropoff is expected, because the turbo exhaust side chokes the engine above that RPM.

            If you want this at wheels you need a HX40 minimum.

            Forget 550hp on a HX35. Fairytale world.
            http://tuner.ee - http://www.facebook.com/tuner.ee

            Comment

            • Thuppu
              S2Forum Freak
              • Sep 2010
              • 4115
              • Country: Finland

              #7
              Good result for a standard HX35, but can be better with an HX35 super.

              Audi UrS4 Avant 2.5 20vt - twincharged - Project
              Audi 80q B4 Sedan 2.2 20vt - Daily user
              BMW 320d Touring e91 M-Sport - Daily user
              BMW 740iA e38 - Project

              Comment

              • prj
                S2Forum Zealot
                • Mar 2010
                • 6308
                • Country: Estonia

                #8
                I don't think it is going to be any better with HX35 Super.

                HX35 Super gets usually between 510 and 530hp and that is with water/meth injection.
                Without it's not more than 480hp as well..
                http://tuner.ee - http://www.facebook.com/tuner.ee

                Comment

                • quattrostyle
                  S2Forum Zealot
                  • Oct 2006
                  • 6229
                  • Country: Netherlands

                  #9
                  And it's called a ''Super'' because..?

                  Comment

                  • Thuppu
                    S2Forum Freak
                    • Sep 2010
                    • 4115
                    • Country: Finland

                    #10
                    Of course it depends of the dyno, but a friend of my have an S2 with an HX35S with a tiny #8 motorsport hot side, VEMS and 510hp without water/meth inj. And the restriction was the fuel pump(walbro) as it started to go lean in the upper end. He has a 60mm WG though.

                    Audi UrS4 Avant 2.5 20vt - twincharged - Project
                    Audi 80q B4 Sedan 2.2 20vt - Daily user
                    BMW 320d Touring e91 M-Sport - Daily user
                    BMW 740iA e38 - Project

                    Comment

                    • Jamo
                      Retired OG Mod
                      • Mar 2004
                      • 21750
                      • Country: United Kingdom

                      #11
                      I think that is a good result on a HX35 I wouldn't have expected anymore than 500 max with all bells and whistle on that turbo

                      Impressive that the curves are flat, a tuner could probably squeeze a bit more out of it

                      What were the AFR's and egts?

                      Comment

                      • jonnaz
                        S2Forum Enthusiast
                        • Aug 2009
                        • 158
                        • Country: United Kingdom

                        #12
                        Ok thanks.

                        PRJ i trust your judgement as i know you have mapped many of these cars.

                        Maybe i was being a bit over optomistic with my estimations. 480hp at the crank equates to about 360 ish WHP. Seems like that is what is expected of this setup. The yorque curve is nice and flat.

                        I was pulling fuel from the top end to try and lean it out the engine is just choking above 6k.

                        Jamo MAX EGT was 683 deg. Afr labda 0.74 at the top end between 6.5 and 7k. The target lambda is 0.79. Maybe i should try leaning it out more above 6k. Im not running closed loop lambda contol above 3.5k.

                        Billman did you notice the spark angle in the log doesnt match the cell value in the ignition table? I find this strange.

                        Thanks.

                        Comment

                        • Thuppu
                          S2Forum Freak
                          • Sep 2010
                          • 4115
                          • Country: Finland

                          #13
                          If it doesn't knock at all, maybe you get 500 with a little leaner upper end and a bit more timing. Have the engine timing been checked with a strobo?

                          Audi UrS4 Avant 2.5 20vt - twincharged - Project
                          Audi 80q B4 Sedan 2.2 20vt - Daily user
                          BMW 320d Touring e91 M-Sport - Daily user
                          BMW 740iA e38 - Project

                          Comment

                          • EspenW
                            S2Forum Extremist
                            • Apr 2007
                            • 1534
                            • Country: Norway

                            #14
                            That is a sweet as pie torque curve.
                            Don't fret about peak hp numbers, your car is likely faster on the road than similar cars with more peak hp, but a more peaky torque delivery.

                            Also, Dyno Dynamics numbers are real world, and not dreamworld like many others.

                            EDIT: I mistook the boost curve for the torque curve.... still nice, though, but that boost curve is sweet. I want boost to stay up like that too However, I get that same boost 500rpm earlier, so it is a tradeoff.
                            Last edited by EspenW; 1 July 2014, 10:59.
                            1995 RS2 on Alcohol (6.8sec 100-200km/h)
                            1994 80E Avant
                            1986 2L Golf 2 on Alcohol

                            Comment

                            • jonnaz
                              S2Forum Enthusiast
                              • Aug 2009
                              • 158
                              • Country: United Kingdom

                              #15
                              Tuppu yes i have check the engine timing with a strobe using the ignition lock function in vems.

                              i will try to lean it out a little to get it back on target. see what happens.

                              Espen thanks. what turbo are you running?

                              Comment

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