Has anyone else had this thought?

[prj]

This may be why I hung out for a car with 70k miles on it. I also work with an ex Audi main dealer expert mechanic

Well, yeah, I just bought a car for below market price, and I knew I had to put money into it.
But that way, I now have a car where everything that needed doing is done, and with all that included I paid about the market price for what a RS4 goes in germany with just below 130k on the clock.

The only things that are wrong with it now are noisy PAS pump, a few light bulbs, and a gearbox that needs an overhaul, because it does not work as well as it should unless the oil is at perfect temperature, so that will be done in the winter.

I know in the UK these cars are cheaper, because your insurance, tax etc is killer.
Here I pay 100quid a year for 3rd party on the RS4, and that's it. And we have no car tax.

[dest]

Its why I got one with the cams already done

[martinjs]

Basically, at 200 000km or 130k miles you will need to change the chain tensioners and chains on both sides.
If you are late, you will need to change the camshafts as well, but luckily the intakes are the same as used in the 2.4 NA engine and the exhausts are the same for all 5V V6's.
If you ignore the terrible noise it makes every time you start it up for long, you will not only need new camshafts, but you will need a new engine.

A single tensioner is 400 EUR, if you get it cheap. Two tensioners plus chains are 900 EUR.
In addition to that, you will need all the gaskets. Parts alone are 1000 EUR.
If you add a belt change to that, and change all worn PCV and vacuum hoses, you will need more parts.
All in all, you can easily blow over 2K with labor, which I just did.

Proper tires are close to 1000 EUR, at least for the winter ones. Summer ones you can have for less. Factory spec is 255/35, but I run 245's.

The turbos are much better than K03's, they should easily do close to 250 000 miles, and they are pretty much the only thing you'd really need to pull the engine for.

My PAS pump just went at 130k as well, that needs replacing, and for that the front has to come off.
There are problems with ignition coils as well. They will need replacing every now and then, they first develop a hard misfire at idle, then fail under boost as well.
And while it is not true that you have to take the engine off for everything, it is well true, that you have to take the nose off for almost anything worth mentioning, and even for the little jobs you will always have to remove the plastic intake pipe and airbox to get anywhere.

B5 has much better suspension than B4, but it is also more expensive to service.
Gearbox is the same 01E, my 2nd gear syncro is not very good, so I will need to get that fixed.
Exactly the same typical gearbox issues crop up as on all older 01E cars, meaning hard to get into 1st gear and grinding 2nd gear - typical fault.

The engine /will/ develop massive oil leaks everywhere like the other Audi V6s. Even if you do nothing wrong, expect to change rocker cover gaskets, cam seals every few years.

The secondary air injection system tends to fail, the pump goes and then it's €€€ to replace it.
Easier to get rid of all of that cr*p and code out the faults out of the ECU.

The car has four lambda sensors due to Euro4. The rear ones can be removed and coded out of the ECU. It also has two EGT sensors, which eventually fail and are also €€€ to replace.

All this stuff /will/ go wrong. I did some calculations, and it would be cheaper for me right now to go into the mitsubishi dealership and buy a brand new Evo X than to run this car. But then it wouldn't be an Audi RS4, now would it?

Oh and, not that anyone cares, but gas mileage is almost identical to 2.2T.

Is that all?

[djh]

But if I had a RS2 and a RS4 on the drive, I could not think of a single moment, I'd want to take the RS2 out, apart from nostalgy reasons.

[newsh]

This may be why I hung out for a car with 70k miles on it. I also work with an ex Audi main dealer expert mechanic

[dest]

No

Nothing more you need to add then really

[prj]

Oh and, I know this is S2Forum, but once you go there, you can never go back
Sitting inside a RS4 is like a RS2, but almost everything is better.

More power, more handling, more torque down low, tighter car, more leg and headroom, etc.
The only thing you get to miss sometimes is the rawness of the first thing, and also I hate the way the electronic throttle is set up from factory (so I changed it ).

I am not trying to rip into things, and big power 2.2T's are fun, and they are *easy* to work on (it is a lot cheaper to extract more power from a 2.2T, than tune the 2.7TT).
But if I had a RS2 and a RS4 on the drive, I could not think of a single moment, I'd want to take the RS2 out, apart from nostalgy reasons.

[dest]

Thats not strictly true about having to change tensioners at a certain mileage!
Yes, some suffer from worn cams, but no one on audisrs (or Doug) seems to be able to correlate mileage to failure, unfortunatly it seems to be totally random!
Some fail on sub 100k cars, and others are doing big miles with no issues.
My car had them changed around 15k ago, and Ive got the receipt from MRC detailing all parts used, and Im pretty sure they dont match up to what your costs were!


I agree tyres could cost you £800 a set, but thats no more expensive than any other high performance car, S2 included if you're buying really good tyres (why would you not want to anyway?)

Secondary air injection is crap, as you said, best to remove it, even if its working ok. Mine will be taken off when I get round to it. Just another example of Audi over-engineering.

Realistically, they're no worse than any other car, they ALL go wrong no matter what

[martinjs]

the original debate being has anyone else thought about getting one

No

[prj]

Basically, at 200 000km or 130k miles you will need to change the chain tensioners and chains on both sides.
If you are late, you will need to change the camshafts as well, but luckily the intakes are the same as used in the 2.4 NA engine and the exhausts are the same for all 5V V6's.
If you ignore the terrible noise it makes every time you start it up for long, you will not only need new camshafts, but you will need a new engine.

A single tensioner is 400 EUR, if you get it cheap. Two tensioners plus chains are 900 EUR.
In addition to that, you will need all the gaskets. Parts alone are 1000 EUR.
If you add a belt change to that, and change all worn PCV and vacuum hoses, you will need more parts.
All in all, you can easily blow over 2K with labor, which I just did.

Proper tires are close to 1000 EUR, at least for the winter ones. Summer ones you can have for less. Factory spec is 255/35, but I run 245's.

The turbos are much better than K03's, they should easily do close to 250 000 miles, and they are pretty much the only thing you'd really need to pull the engine for.

My PAS pump just went at 130k as well, that needs replacing, and for that the front has to come off.
There are problems with ignition coils as well. They will need replacing every now and then, they first develop a hard misfire at idle, then fail under boost as well.
And while it is not true that you have to take the engine off for everything, it is well true, that you have to take the nose off for almost anything worth mentioning, and even for the little jobs you will always have to remove the plastic intake pipe and airbox to get anywhere.

B5 has much better suspension than B4, but it is also more expensive to service.
Gearbox is the same 01E, my 2nd gear syncro is not very good, so I will need to get that fixed.
Exactly the same typical gearbox issues crop up as on all older 01E cars, meaning hard to get into 1st gear and grinding 2nd gear - typical fault.

The engine /will/ develop massive oil leaks everywhere like the other Audi V6s. Even if you do nothing wrong, expect to change rocker cover gaskets, cam seals every few years.

The secondary air injection system tends to fail, the pump goes and then it's €€€ to replace it.
Easier to get rid of all of that cr*p and code out the faults out of the ECU.

The car has four lambda sensors due to Euro4. The rear ones can be removed and coded out of the ECU. It also has two EGT sensors, which eventually fail and are also €€€ to replace.

All this stuff /will/ go wrong. I did some calculations, and it would be cheaper for me right now to go into the mitsubishi dealership and buy a brand new Evo X than to run this car. But then it wouldn't be an Audi RS4, now would it?

Oh and, not that anyone cares, but gas mileage is almost identical to 2.2T.

[dest]

How? An S2 Coupe is only an Audi Coupe with big engine and an interior full of plastic

Anyway, this is all going off topic... the original debate being has anyone else thought about getting one

[martinjs]

Lets face it, old Audi's are a lot better screwed together...fact. I've been in a few A4's and couldnt get out quick enough.

[martinjs]

I agree, S2 avant = old mans 80, but coupe, well..thats one of a kind.

[newsh]

Well it has made me realise how good the S2 is now

[newsh]

At the end of the day its just a hyped up A4 with a big engine and an interior full of plastic