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8E0 Rear Brake Upgrade

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  • Yes, c'mon John - spill the beans...
    Past: S2 ABY coupe RS2 spec with lots of mods, S4 B5 saloon, RS6 C5 saloon, S8 D2 FL, RS4 B7 saloon, S4 B6 avant

    Present: S4 B8 avant, MRC Stage 2

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    • now i`ve bought following parts;

      carrier ;
      8E0 615 425

      Calipter ;
      8E0 615 423 /424

      disc ;
      8E0 615 601 R

      But its something wrong here, the caliper will not fit on the carrier, its about 2cm missing to the bolts.

      i have read somewhere i can use the brakedisc Ø300x22 without reduce them to Ø280 on avant/sedan.

      Someone can give me correct part number for caliper to use on the carrier ? i can post picture if someone not understand what i`m meaning.
      < - 95` Audi S2 avant - >
      < - 97` MB C200 elegance - >

      Comment


      • Those are carriers and calipers for a 245mm rear disc

        You need the following for 300mm on Avant/Sedan

        Calipers:
        8E0 615 423 C (or 8E0 615 423 J)
        8E0 615 424 C (or 8E0 615 424 J)

        Carriers:
        8E0 615 425 B (or 8E0 615 425 J)

        The first numbers are for parts finished in silver, the second numbers are for black.

        Ben
        the best intentions are fraught with disappointment - gil grissom

        sigpic
        1994 ABY Avant - it's getting there

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        • Thanks, i have correct carrier, but the calipers are wrong.

          i find new calipers to 172 £ for one caliper. is that alright price or it cheap / expensive?
          < - 95` Audi S2 avant - >
          < - 97` MB C200 elegance - >

          Comment


          • Seems fairly reasonable.

            Retail price on the silver calipers are £193.24 + VAT each in the UK, I can get them for £170 inc VAT each.
            The black ones are £150.25 + VAT each. I can get them for £133 inc VAT each.

            Ben
            the best intentions are fraught with disappointment - gil grissom

            sigpic
            1994 ABY Avant - it's getting there

            Comment


            • Rear 996 Brakes

              OK...I know it's been a while but time has not been plentiful to write things up but is a good way of allowing you to firm things up in your head . Ha!

              Going back to earlier posts I thought I would follow my train of thought again. I have ordered parts for the final solution ( I hope) but we'll come to that in due course.

              The RS2 has a neat setup with a drum in disc solution as is the norm for many Porsches like the 996 and 986 (Boxster). Trying to adapt RS2 parts to the S2 particularly the Coupe is problematic due to different drive shafts etc apart from the obvious 4-stud / 5-stud hubs & wheels. So I ruled this option out in short order after reading the posts on the subject.

              However the elegance of the solution prompted me to look for another drum-in-disc solution. Many cars use this like BMWs and Subarus to name a few but the key is having a sufficiently high hat height of disc to accommodate a suitable drum mechanism. Initially I was dubious because the S8 rear disc has a fairly shallow hat height and the discs I have fo not have a great surface area for the drum pads to grip.

              In the spirit of exploration I pursued further and sought a suitable mechanism. I eventually tracked down a company that did indeed have a bespoke solution for a 996 rear caliper on a Golf 4-platform 4-motion, which is not too far removed from where we want to be

              Have a look at http://www.mbt-engineering.de/EN/pro...6C_300x22.html

              To cut a long story short, two things prevented me from taking this any further. First was the fact that the kit would have to be modified to attached to the rear hub mount and secondly a different disc would have to be used to give the drum sufficient material to bite......oh and there is a third reason drum-in-disc is great in principle but as many RS2 and other owners will testify, they can be a b**** to set up when they go wrong.

              My end solution has to use as many standard VAG parts as possible and be elegantly simple to deploy and so this option was not progressed. I'm sure there is some mileage to be had if someone wants to go there and Peter De Staercke at MBT was very helpful. In fact their base is not too far over the channel for a little visit!

              More next time on the second option of adapting the 996 caliper itself for a handbrake

              TTFN
              2001 996 C4 - Being renovated
              1994 ABY Coupe - "Das Smaragd RS2+ Coupe" - Sold

              Comment


              • Hallo.

                i drive 335mm rear disc from A8, with Girling 41/43, and A8 brakets for the 280mm disc, with extensions for the brake calipers.
                Front 360x34mm A8 Discs with 996T/GT3 calippers and custom brakets.


                Tested in Hockenheim and Nürburgring without any problems, the brake delay is as with a Porsche GT3...
                This setup is for the racetrack, 100% without fading...

                Thomas

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                • MBT Engineering

                  Just remembered that MBT Engineering kindly sent me a picture for the internals of their e-brake that someone may want to follow up: -

                  tn_MBT e-brake PICT0427.JPG

                  They are now working on an R8 rear brake solution for the Mark 5 Golf BTW. I guess if there was sufficient demand from S2 owners they may well investigate a bespoke solution....but like most things it comes down to economics.
                  2001 996 C4 - Being renovated
                  1994 ABY Coupe - "Das Smaragd RS2+ Coupe" - Sold

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by John B View Post

                    More next time on the second option of adapting the 996 caliper itself for a handbrake

                    TTFN
                    Hi John,
                    Most interested in this - can you tell us more?
                    I am using the typ85 rear caliper. They really are useless and just keep seizing up so I am very much looking for a similar solution.
                    Many thanks
                    Chris
                    Audi 90 quattro (Typ 85)
                    20v turbo conversion

                    sigpic

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by S2central.net View Post
                      Just found another option in the family album. Not a cheap one mind, but here goes:

                      There is an option for 310x22mm rear brakes on armoured A8/S8. These use the same alloy calipers as the 280mm A8/S8 rears (4D0 615 423/4 E) that MarkH fitted to the A8/S8 carrier (4D0 615 425C).

                      The carrier for the armoured 310mm brakes is 4D0 615 425D. These should work with A8/S6 or UrS4/S6 rear calipers as the spacing will be right.

                      Paul
                      I have a question about carrier 4D0 615 425D which is for armoured A8/S8 rear 310x22mm brakes.

                      How we know, brake calipers 4D0 615 423/4 E are the same for A8/S8 269x22, 280x22 and 310x22 brakes, just carriers are different.
                      I would like to know if all of those three carriers has the same size and distance between mounting holes As I understood carrier 4D0 615 425C from 280x22mm and carrier 4D0 615 425B from 269x22mm has the same ones. That's confirmed by MarkH.

                      But how to know about 4D0 615 425D from 310x22mm As example what I'm talking about I'm using this picture:
                      Attached Files

                      Comment


                      • Someone needs to locate/borrow/buy one of the carriers for 310x22 option and measure it so we know.
                        Paul Nugent
                        Webmaster http://S2central.net
                        Administrator http://S2forum.com

                        1994 S2 Coupe ABY - aka Project Lazarus
                        2001 A6 allroad 2.5TDi - family tank
                        2003 S4 Avant 4.2 V8 - daily burble

                        Purveyor of HomeFries and Exclusive agent for Samco hose kits (S2/RS2)

                        There are only 10 kinds of people that understand binary - those that do, and those that don't

                        Comment


                        • 996 Rear Caliper

                          Can't help on the carriers for 310x22 option but as promised here's more on the second option that I explored. Essentially, I was looking to use the 996 rear caliper as a standard hydraulic brake with some ingenious way of clamping the pads mechanically as a separate handbrake in order to satisfy the requirements of our beloved MoT.

                          So i got hunting and pretty soon all roads started to lead to a UK kit car manufacturer called Marlin Sports Cars. Have a look at: -

                          http://www.marlinsportscars.co.uk/news/115/

                          I liked the elegance of the solution in that the normal pads were clamped by plates and a cable that operated in the same manner as a V-brake on a mountain bike.

                          So I called Mark Matthews, sent him some pictures and drawings and waited for the call, which duly came a few days later. I have to say that Mark was great, spending time explaining his ingenious solution to an amateur like me.

                          It became pretty clear early on in the conversation that although the principle worked well, adapting it to a 996 caliper was not easy because: -

                          1) the solution was built for a Wilwood caliper that is not a monobloc but rather has a spacer between hydraulic reservoirs but more importantly has 2 slider bars for the pads rather than the single bar that the 996 claiper has.

                          2) the plates that do the clamping were ~7mm thick each, which with a 22mm vented S8 disc did not leave much room for pads in a monobloc caliper. In fact I would either have to take pad material off or use a thinner solid disc, neither of which was intended. This, for kit cars, which are very light is not a problem and most do use solid rear discs.

                          3) the 7 to 1 clamping ratio required by the MoT was only just met using this method and when we are dealing with ~1.5 tonnes of car rather than half that of a kit car, i did not want to trust the mechanism

                          So, the hunt continued to option number 3, which i have now progressed further. Apologies for the long delay but i have been upgrading the entire suspension/hubs/sub-frames/CVs etc. More coming soon, brake fiends!
                          2001 996 C4 - Being renovated
                          1994 ABY Coupe - "Das Smaragd RS2+ Coupe" - Sold

                          Comment


                          • The ones of you following along at www.irry.com knows that I have been spending my sick leave in the garage working on my brakes. Today I approached the hand brake situation on the coupé and I might have something that works. But I wanted to ask you guys what you think. First a few pics (all pics can be found here):





                            The plan is to weld a mounting, just like the one on the subframe, to the wishbone. Personally I can't see any flaws in this approach but what do you guys say about mounting the cable to the wishbone? The only risk I see here is that with the original cable the bend under the caliper is pretty aggressive. But you also have to have in mind that the current cable have been on the car for 15ish years so with a new cable it might looks smoother.

                            I have also looked at rebuilding the caliper and flip the handbrake assembly 180 degrees so that the hand brake wire would enter from above, but that's a lot more work (unless you use right caliper on left side and vice versa, something I want to avoid).

                            I also have some second thoughts about my carriers. More about that in a separate post.

                            ps. It's RS4-b7 calipers, carriers, splash shields and discs.
                            /NEO - I have a sexual thing for big brakes.
                            www.irry.com | Irry got a face lift!
                            #nordicaudi @ irc.nordicaudi.com

                            Comment


                            • Cant see an issue with it myself. Might be be more difficult to weld onto the cast wishbones? Also the angle is tight like you say.
                              Greg

                              S2Forum.com Administrator & Webmaster

                              '93 Coupe with a few tweeks

                              Comment


                              • Angle is quite tight but looks like it'll work - just that the cable will not last as long probably
                                You could use a longer cable and a "lazyier" radius, although then you might have interferance with the wheel rim i guess?
                                Panthero Coupé quattro 20vt
                                Indigo ABY coupé
                                Imola B6 S4 Avant

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