Project "Sooty"

[S2central.net]

@Ben - is that for 1Z or AAZ you need ?

PAul

[S2central.net]

Guessing its the 1Z as that actually has an ECU... The AAZ is an odd looking thing - just has a control module for EGR valve - that 55kW version looks pretty agricultural.

The 66kW (90bhp) 1Z even has a drive by wire throttle pot - pretty exotic for the early 1990s - heheh

Guess you'll want the specific immo and cruise schematics as well for a 95 TDi...
What about aircon ?

Paul

[s2avant]

1Z if you would be so kind. Mainly interested in the engine and dash wiring but whatever you have would be good. Immo and Airbag have been consigned to the rubbish bin a long time back so not too much of an issue.

No aircon so not too fussed.

They are indeed drive by wire. Which makes cruise an easy option. Very expensive and a PITA to replace and setup if they go wrong.

Ben

[S2central.net]

There's many versions of 1Z wiring just for the 80 TDi (B4) -

1 - From Sep 1991
2 - From July 1992
3 - From July 1993
4 - From Feb 1994
5 - From July 1994

I'll get a look to see when the cruise options started to come available...

Paul

[S2central.net]

On paper it would seem that cruise was available as an option on the 1Z right from the outset but it would seem this is not straightforward either as it looks like three variants of cruise control were used depending on model year...

1 - From Sept 1991 which does NOT involve ECU (J248)
2 - From July 1992 - also does NOT involve ECU - looks like system above, just tidier
3 - From Feb 1994 (approx) - this version does interact with TDi ECU

The break point for the type of cruise control that requires ECU interaction is VIN 8C-R-128401 so you would need an ECU of that vintage to interwork with the later cruise control system.

It would appear that the older cruise control will work on all variants of 1Z engine and ECU. HTH


Paul

PS - In all seriousness this is ;artly why I prefer an 80 based TDi cos I have amassed so much useful info from the S2 that I have it at my fingertips. On a mighty C4 based TDi I would be starting from scratch almost.

[s2avant]

The July 94 stuff (which is MY95) is what I appear to be missing. My binders claim to have it in them but Ive been through them and it's not in there.

I'm pretty sure cruise has been possible on them since the beginning in Sept 91 (MY92). It's definately possible on July 93 (MY94) on.

Ben

[S2central.net]

Its like layers of an onion...

Those two early cruise variants are the same - just drawing tweaks... They use an external cruise control relay and loom that connects to brake, clutch switches, speedo and vacuum pump.

Whereas on the later cars (From July 1993 if its automatic or than ~Feb 1994 VIN if its manual) then the cruise control switch and loom connects directly to the ECU. The ECU has connectivity to the pedal switches and there is no external cruise control relay module. It doesn't need the traditional vacuum pump either cos of the DBW throttle as mentioned by Ben.

A surprisingly complex beastie actually

PAul

[S2central.net]

Ben you just need chapters 45 & 46 from the 1994>> binder to cover the basics and 16 for the cruise control. I'll not bother with t'others as you say. Tis about 30 pages in all. Ping me over the weekend to remind me... I'll likely scan 'em into PDF and host them for easy access for all. Actually it might be a good test of my clickable resource idea

Paul

[Jas11n]

So what jungle juice protects that restored paint from the elements - and for how long, before you need another week of OCD therapy ?

Paul

Shockingly, nothing as yet. I couldn't get the whole car done last weekend as the weather moved in and stopped play. It's just the bare machined finish, no wax or nothing yet. Had to stop half way down the passenger door, so have the that side plus the roof left to do. The boot needs a rub down and repaint and the rear bumper is getting junked in favour of an S2 avant rear.
Then it'll most likely get Klasse sealant glaze and Collinite 476S on top. Nothing is ever going to stop the dreaded fade, but hopefully some decent stuff on top will prolong the finish.
I'd be the same as Steve though, in that I'd not let it fade again.

Jas,

That's the earlier type ECU setup. Has your car got the big metal MAF instead of the S2 style plastic tube? I can't see the pictures at work because of our firms knee jerk internet policy!.

I'm pretty sure cruise can be activated on that ECU but I would need to look through my wiring/fault finding binders to be sure.

As for the foglights I don't think the connector will be there behind the dash. I have looked at the looms on the FA and the front lighting loom is the same across the board so the foglight connectors are there on all models. The dash loom is car specific though so unless it has fogs the connectors more than likely won't be there. I've got the connector sat at home so look forward to hearing how you finish the wiring so I can match it.

While we're on the subject of wiring does anyone have the 95 on (S chassis) wiring diagrams for a TDi? Mine only go up to '94 model year which is fine for the S2 but a PITA when trying to work on the DagDag.

Ben

Yes, it has an alloy housed MAF bolted to the airbox Ben (028906301 is the number on top)

I've been given some info on the pinouts on the ECU that the wiring of the cruise stalk should need connecting to. But this info is for the ECU connector from the 1.9 TDI 1Z/AHU (A6 C4)
It's another job for the weekend. Get vag-com hooked up and first off see if I can enable cruise. If so I'll get the ECU out and inspect the wiring on the connector, see if it matches.

I'm off down to Andy's in Tamworth weekend after next to pick up the S2 avant rear that has been kindly ferried from Bristol for me. I'll take lots of pics of the foglight install and post them all up. From what I gather, the switch and associated loom have been removed complete from a 90.

The main reason I never bought or fitted a shortshift kit for the CGR in the S2, is that I tried it out on another (95 ABY avant) and didn't think it was that great. Even the owner of the car said don't do it
The 6 speeder is notchy to start with and the shortshift made it a bit too much. Just my opinion though, could have been the gearbox in that particular car.
A shortshift on the 5 speeder is a totally different ballgame altogether though. I have tried one too, with the 5 speeder being such a nice smooth change, the kit makes it even better.
Problem is, where do I buy one now?, vagparts don't list them anymore that I can see.

Jas..

[s2avant]

We're pretty sure the short shift is in fact a MkI Golf shifter (or at least something very similar). Having said that they are still not cheap.

Your pin outs for the C4 will be different to the early type setup in your car. I will see if I have some schematics for one of that vintage. After some further investigation in the FA I'm pretty sure yours will need the separate control unit and loom.

Ben

[S2central.net]

@Jas - With your TDi being an MY93 on a 'P' VIN then I can tell your ECU will not support cruise control. You have two options here -

1. Locate a later ECU that supports cruise and wire that into the cruise stalk... But I dunno if the earlier ECU will be wired up to the right place in the loom. Actually looking in detail the loom is VERY different between these ECU variants so that is not a direct swap.

2. Fit the 'generic' cruise control system complete with separate loom, relay module & vac pump. This doesn't talk to older ECU and is therefore transparent.

Either way - the schematics I have here should help a lot !


Cheers,

Paul

[Acidburn]

Jas - pm'd you back about parts and short shift kit

also you might try and get a set of wheels with covers over the bolt holes to make it look like it is an s2 without people being able to see what nuts you have

[S2central.net]

The huge plume of black smoke, chip-shop perfume and god-awful dag-dag-dag-dag noise will give the game away just as soon as he turns the key... I wouldn't worry

[Error404]

i'm impressed at how advanced the old TDi were for their age, this is interesting, if a little over-my-head technically

[Jas11n]

Hmmm, if it's going to cost me a stack of money to get the cruise up and running (control units, looms and so on), then I'll likely not bother. Just would have been cool to enable it in vag-com, splice in some wiring and away we go. I would still likely have a go if an ECU swap along with a rejig of wiring at the ECU connector was possible, but it's whole purpose is to see how far I can get on a budget and elbow grease, and of course as a work hack on veggie oil power, hence not wanting to start buying things like that.
Appreciate the thoughts and advice so far. Thanks.

Oh, an oil burner running on biofuel (even more so SVO) supposedly produces no black smoke out of the exhaust at all. That's just a product of the refined petroleum that is pump diesel .

@ Pete, PM'ed you back. Thanks.

Jas..