648 AWHP 4cyl....

[speeding-g60]

didnt do it as it is making good power now and will do it after i run it on the track. its making well enough power to do what i need it to do today. no need to push now.

if it was low 500's, i would have pushed timing into the equation.

this was in like 5 or 6 pulls, BTW. total.

baseline was lean 13-14.00 on the WG spring. 470/356 or so, developing 19-20 psi. 3k - 7k

cleaned up fuel, baseline now 470/356 or so, on the WG spring, 19-21 psi, 12.5 AFR. 3k - 7k

add 10% boost duty cycle, 492ish/??? makes 22.5-23 psi now running 55% fuel duty cycle. E-85 and ID 1600's 4BAR base static. 3k - 8k but dyno was still set on 7k so we didnt get top end numbers. 11.9 AFR

set dyno right, 3k - 8k, 520/xxx 23 psi 12.0 AFR flat

add another 10% boost duty cycle (now 20%) 541/397, 26.6 psi, 55% injector duty cycle, 3k - 82-8300 or so, trying for 8k. 12.0 AFR.

add another 10% boost duty cycle (now 30%) 577/430ish, 29 psi, 3k - 8k 12.0 AFR flat

add another 10% boost duty cycle (now 40%) 648/480.5, 34psi, 3k - 8k, 12.0 AFR flat

CALLED IT A DAY (night). we could have easily hit the 700 club. but i run 10.05 @ 139 with 615/434 and 33 psi. i want to run 9 seconds off the trailer first pass out this year.

all with timing at 16-17 degrees. we made good power have a nice curve and didnt die. it was a good day all around. its running well, sounds and feels good, and is a safe tune that i do not need to push the limits hardcore with.

so, as to the question of timing. i did some looking. here is what i saw.

5krpm 23.5, 5500rpm 18.5, 6k rpm 17.0 degrees. peak torque rpm 6793 rpm, timing 16.5 degrees. 7k rpm 16.0 degrees

still, no matter how you slice it.

615 AWHP and 434 tq, i went 10.05 in the 3rd pass ever.

more whp, more tq, i should hopefully smash the 9 sec barrier the first shot out.

more changes are now steel FW instead of alum FW (help keep the revs up and launches), ID 1600 injectors, it should happen.


i could run PLENTY MORE TIMING if i had a need to, but i just dont. its safe, it gets me down the track. E-85 loves timing, and we will go for ~750 after i run 9's.

[vcosmin]

Best of luck, nice results.
What turbo / inducer size, and turbine AR are you using now ? Cams duration and lift

[prj]

i could run PLENTY MORE TIMING if i had a need to, but i just dont. its safe, it gets me down the track. E-85 loves timing, and we will go for ~750 after i run 9's.

Uhm, you can run this timing on a stock CR AAN engine on pump... just sayin'
I'm curious to see what this engine can deliver after a proper tune, I am sure you can get at least 100hp more.

[speeding-g60]

oh yeah, EGT was only getting to around 800 degrees.... i have plenty left in this setup trust me.

i just wont take it to 45 psi anymore, cuz good things do not happen there for me.


EDIT: had wrong initials, meant EGT not IAT.

[prj]

oh yeah, IAT was only getting to around 800 degrees.... i have plenty left in this setup trust me.

i just wont take it to 45 psi anymore, cuz good things do not happen there for me.

You mean EGT...
And yeah, you will have low EGT's on E85.

[speeding-g60]

turbo: Bullseye Power S366XL, T-4 divided inlet 1.00 A/R on divided manifold.

cams are not matched very well for this setup, they are the baby solid cams offered by CAT for the 4 cylinder 20v. i have a custom ground set being made for me now....

prj; when you blow $20,000 in motors and only get 13 passes or so on the track, you do WTF you want with your setups. IDGAF what YOU think or say about this. its people like you who REALLY PISS PEOPLE LIKE ME OFF!!!!! you can take your "proper tune" BS and put it deep where the sun never shines, ok?

while i appreciate the comments about MY setup, i really dont like the people who come in here and say crap like "stock motor takes that blah blah". does your precious "stock CR AAN engine on pump" make >600 horsepower to the ground? does it even make 175 hp? this is a 4 cyl motor factory rated at 180 hp at the crank. i have it running ~800 hp at the crank. you do the math. properly tuned, for ME who owns, built, and operates this car. car isnt a chip tuned car with a cranked WG. its a litte further developed than that. when you can build a car in your garage at your house BY YOURSELF that runs 10.05 in a quarter mile on its third full pass ever, come chat with me.

and yes, thank you for pointing that out, i did mean EGT is 800's. the IAT is around 30 deg C. on a 1/4 mile pass i do not see a rise of more than 10deg C, ending the runs ~40 deg. but that is what AWIC with ice water does for a drag car.



sorry if you think i am being a p*r*i*c*k or whatever, i just get tired of hearing "why did you blah blah because this would have been better" and that kind of stuff. you stick to lesser powered I-5 cyl slow cars, i will continue to push my wimpy little mis-tuned 4cyl stuff. Bench Tuners, no more replies please.

SHEESH!

vcosimin, here is the profile i run. ex cam way too big, and we run a different centerline than recommended. it has helped us with power. here also is stock cams next to my cams.

[prj]

prj; when you blow $20,000 in motors and only get 13 passes or so on the track, you do WTF you want with your setups. IDGAF what YOU think or say about this. its people like you who REALLY PISS PEOPLE LIKE ME OFF!!!!! you can take your "proper tune" BS and put it deep where the sun never shines, ok?

while i appreciate the comments about MY setup, i really dont like the people who cpome in here and say crap like "stock motor takes that blah blah". does your precious "stock CR AAN engine on pump" make >600 horsepower to the ground? does it even make 175 hp? this is a 4 cyl motor factory rated at 180 hp at the crank. i have it running ~800 hp at the crank. do the math.

and yes, thank you for pointing that out, i did mean EGT is 800's. the IAT is around 30 deg C. on a 1/4 mile pass i do not see a rise of more than 10deg C, ending the runs ~40 deg. but that is what AWIC with ice water does for a drag car.

That was uncalled for.
Ask any tuner about running 16-17 deg of timing on E85 on a 8.5CR motor...
You said yourself that you only did 6 pulls - 6 pulls is not a proper tune, I thought I was stating the obvious.

I don't see what you are getting worked up over.
But whatever...

[speeding-g60]

since you want to further this....

what are your qualifications and your accomplishments?

you see, i went into this chassis with the intent on pushing things. i pushed 45psi and blew first motor on dyno.
built a full new motor. tuned on the dyno. pushed 4th gear ONCE and 46 psi by 5700 rpm and blew that one too. oops, there went at least $10k.

take a break. make new motor. tune it conservatively and run it for a bit. mis shift into 1st instead of third, 11.5k rpm. OOPS. still, make 3 more 10 sec passes before it blew up. there went another $10k.

pick up a sponsor, need seat time. do a complete safe tune, do not push it because i dont need to.

do you now understand why i am not trying to push too much? i need to drive it more and blow it up less.

so again, please state your achievements and tuning qualifications, i am more than happy to read about you but i will not make comments such as you have to me. i will ask a question maybe, posed in such a way, so that i learn your thought process and try to understand your point of view, not attack you and compare your apple to my moose.

as well, you did read that apology in advance. maybe i should just move along from here as i have never really felt ultra welcome here anyhow? i dont do what you guys do, i took the 5cyl out and gave it away. my experiences and parts stash are all 4cyl stuff.



and i do ask my tuner about everything. i drove the dyno this time, my engine builder and my tuner were both a part of the tuning process. it was a collaborative thought to stop where we were and get it down the track again. i have one more pass for my 8.5 second level license. getting that is my goal. i also have a few tuner consultants that i chat with some as well. have you heard of EFI-101? i am friends with one of the instructors there. he is a tuner and a teacher. he goes around the country and teaches tuning courses, tunes race cars, builds race car management stuff. he has tuned my cars before, he designed my ex manifold, he answers my questions. his name is Brian Macy, his website is HorsePowerConnection and he drives a 7 second street legal drag radial class champion 1200+ WHP Nova. but maybe he doesnt know anything, therefore what is he doing instructing tuners how to tune? he even offered to use my car as the demo vehicle for one of his classes. how cool would that be?

so please relax a little on me and my car.... i do what I want not what YOU want.

[speeding-g60]

and prj, since you are commenting, why dont YOU explain the effects of "running 16-17 deg of timing on E85 on a 8.5CR motor".

and yes, we did 6 pulls on the dyno this session. but we went in with a full y mapped car, just a little different engine. it required a few changes. for the weeks prior, we did light tuning to get AFR's closer to target. working on putting values into the Autronic system for a new injector, values that do not exist.

we have many many hours and datalogs on this stuff. not some dumb kid off the street that puts a car on the rollers and says go. 6 pulls, took about 2.5 hrs. do a pull, go over logs, make changes, discuss what was and whats next. each and every time.

dont know how you guys do it, but thats how i do it.

[prj]

Cool attitude.
Ever heard the saying - play the ball not the player?

Let's look at exactly what I said:
1. I asked you about your CR.
2. I wondered why you were running so little timing - especially on E85
3. You said you did only 6 pulls - and I said the engine should break 750 when you have time to get it tuned properly. Which would mean a compliment on your engine - if anything.

Then you went all nuts. I still don't see why.
Do you want to imply that 6 pulls are a proper tune? Maybe I am a really **** tuner then, but I usually do close to ten times as much.

[speeding-g60]

see reply/edit above.

[prj]

see reply/edit above.

So you basically gave no background info - then got mad and insulted me for no reason.
What a great person you are.

[speeding-g60]

So you basically gave no background info - then got mad and insulted me for no reason.
What a great person you are.

well, you assumed that i am a stupid person thinking that 6 dyno pulls calls it done.

and i have given plenty of background info, throughout different posts i have made here. if you had seen any of the other ones you would have known that.

as for insulting you, well maybe. but i am tired of defending myself and my choices to everyone. if you dont like it dont comment. and if you dont like the answer, dont ask the question.

now, you havent answered my questions.

1: why dont YOU explain the effects of "running 16-17 deg of timing on E85 on a 8.5CR motor".

2: what are your qualifications and your accomplishments?

3: please state your achievements and tuning qualifications

unless you havent any of course. me, i am just a dumb construction worker who plays with cars after hours / on weekends. i waste a lot of money on my cars, and i have a few.

i may not be a great person in your eyes, because you assume something that i set you straight on and you did not like the results. i can see your point of view. but again you must understand that i am not a sheep, i do what i want and how i want. if Jyrki came in and said "you are doing it wrong, and the reason is this:" i would listen and listen well. that does not mean i would DO what he says, but i would take HIS info to heart. he has a track record, some proven experience.

oh well.... good day (or night if it is that there, its only 10 AM here) it was good debating with you on the merit (or lack thereof if we choose your point of view) of MY car and MY progress.

[Rocco]

please guys be quiet


there is no point for join in a discussion

more On Topic coments about this creation

[prj]

well, you assumed that i am a stupid person thinking that 6 dyno pulls calls it done.

I never did.
You wrote that you made 6 pulls, did not touch timing, and run low timing.
I said that you can get a lot more out of the motor, after you have time to tune it properly.

I never told you to do anything - I just stated a couple of facts.
If you don't like to read people's thoughts on your car, then don't post. Simple. Ad hominem attacks will get you nowhere (and sure as hell it is not setting anything "straight") - and this is the reason I think you are an ***.

Anyway, enough.