1992 AUDI S2 Project - Keep it British with a twist.

[terrybullwon]

They do not do a centre one but you can get bias shims for it to set the bias. As for the serrations , they are just going to lock. I found that the 034 units on my last car had way too much play. Like throwing a hot dog down a hallway...

Is James commercially making them now? I will sign up for one if so.

Side track.
How many of you would be interested if I got the thermostat housing replicated in cast aluminum again?

Water manifold thermostat down by the water pump?

[Error404]

Nice development with the TB Issam - is it a restriction at 500hp though? Don't get me wrong if I had the resources to do stuff like that I would regardless of whether its necessary or not... but I would be surprised if many will pay the price it would cost for such a pimp item
That is some list of upgrades there, it will make for a cracking motor

[andy10v]

Sounds like a nice spec list.

You are making some cool stuff!

Interested to see how you get on with the EFR turbos, is Hank doing them with KKK hotsides?

[Wizard-of-OD]

Nice work on the throttle body. Im not sure on the part numbers for the TPS, I can take measurements from mine if it helps?

If that helps sure but I got the TPS off the S2 (another 3B) and it had the 410 part #.

Topic of Throttle Position Sensors.
There seems to be ALOT of conflicting information with respect to TPS.
I have the following 2 TPS:
Audi 200 20VT - 3B - OEM # - 034133154F / BOSCH #: 0 280 120 410
Audi URS4 20VT - AAN - OEM # 078 133 154 / BOSCH # : 0 280 120 431

Threads of reference that I came across that had information relating to the matter:

http://forums.quattroworld.com/s4s6/msgs/21009.phtml

http://forums.quattroworld.com/s4s6/msgs/20405.phtml

http://www.audiworld.com/forums/audi-original-s-cars-25/throttle-potentiometer-2833936/

The common theme across the threads was the TPS's have different readings , however , my findings were the opposite. I have been looking at new Bosch TPS's and the cheapest I found was from the Audi A8 3.6. Everything I can see points that it is interchangeable with the AAN.

Values checked out to be the same so I am wondering who or why it was posted that the 3B and AAN or any 6-PIN tps for that matter has different values when they do not.

Water manifold thermostat down by the water pump?

Yes , the plastic ones seem to follow the same issues as the later vehicles so would like to recreate them in aluminum. Should we start a GB?

Nice development with the TB Issam - is it a restriction at 500hp though? Don't get me wrong if I had the resources to do stuff like that I would regardless of whether its necessary or not... but I would be surprised if many will pay the price it would cost for such a pimp item
That is some list of upgrades there, it will make for a cracking motor

With respect to throttle body development , when I did the 1.8T test , we did not know what to expect and that was on a 1781cc - 2008cc engine. Having almost 30chp gain on a 420chp+ motor is welcoming . With a 2226cc engine I see the 66mm OEM unit as a restriction and considering no one has tried a 70mm+ , with collaboration with Doug@MRC & Marc@EFI , I think we will soon find out what a 75mm will do as a bolt on modification.

Sounds like a nice spec list.

You are making some cool stuff!

Interested to see how you get on with the EFR turbos, is Hank doing them with KKK hotsides?

Thank You! Hank is doing a KKK/T3 inlet to V-band adapter and then using the v-band externally gated EFR7163's. Same goes with the TiAL hotsides since TiAL manufactures the turbine housings for the EFR project line.

[Wizard-of-OD]

Assembled the 3D printed part this morning and realized I made an error with respect to the linkage spring cup .
Now onto REV_07:

Everything else worked and I am trying to see if I can get away with the 3.15mm additional on the housing otherwise I will have to make a new shaft

Will find out in 14 hours as it will start to print in a few minutes. (takes approx 14 hours to print)

[Error404]

Excellent, looking forward to seeing the results then

BTW, only AAN thermostat outlet is plastic, 3B, ABY & ADU are alloy
They do corrode quite badly though, so these are the water rail would be good to reproduce

[Wizard-of-OD]

Excellent, looking forward to seeing the results then

BTW, only AAN thermostat outlet is plastic, 3B, ABY & ADU are alloy
They do corrode quite badly though, so these are the water rail would be good to reproduce

The only aluminum ones we got over here were for the 7A (no ADU/ABY here) and the part is now NLA in North America (not sure about Europe)
Ideally I would like to recreate all the housings again but it boils down to supply and demand. Break even point on coolant flanges is 80 pieces. Easy to do with the 1.8T and 2.0 TFSI crowd. Not so much with the 2.0 16V & 2.2 I5 community...

[Error404]

Yup, 3B, ABY & ADU all the same as 7A
80 is a lot for our market for sure

[Wizard-of-OD]

Yup, 3B, ABY & ADU all the same as 7A
80 is a lot for our market for sure

Actually I mis-spoke earlier. Called another dealership and even though the 3B is NLA , the 7A is still available. There are actually 4 in North America and 11 in Germany

OEM Part # for 7A/3B/ADU/ABY Thermostat Housing : 034121121C

http://trshop.audi.de/konakart/SelectProd.do?prodId=49194&manufacturer=manufacturer&category=Engine%2C+clutch&name=COVER&model=0001

MSRP = $286.13
Cost = $167.84

The reason I use 80 as an example is we sell the thermostat covers for the 1.8T for $119 USD.
The mold costs - approx $6000 CAD
and once casted , the casted parts machined work out to around $26 each.
So for 100 pieces cost works out to around $86 each.

The 3B unit is roughly the same size so if we did 80 it would work out to about $101 each. Not exactly a huge savings compared to something that is available now but just thought Id give some inside information for those considering it.
Issam

[Error404]

Good info.
Have you ever used additive manufacturing for alloy parts?

[Wizard-of-OD]

Good info.
Have you ever used additive manufacturing for alloy parts?

Once yes . I mostly use them for fitment though , never for long term as I really do not know how the coolant will react with the material or heat for that matter even if I changed the fill density to 50+%.
I use PLA (Polylactic acid / polylactide) for reference.

[terrybullwon]

Yes , the plastic ones seem to follow the same issues as the later vehicles so would like to recreate them in aluminum. Should we start a GB?

.

The uk ones are aluminium of some description. Maybe world war 2 coke cans and ration packs. They are you cant really weld to them. I would be in for one or two for sure

[Error404]

No sorry I meant getting alloy parts/prototypes made, using laser melting for example? A mate of mine uses a local firm for this, for reproducing castings for historic race cars etc. Not cheap but cheaper than tooling for conventional casting. He rates the quality of the material

[Wizard-of-OD]

The uk ones are aluminium of some description. Maybe world war 2 coke cans and ration packs. They are you cant really weld to them. I would be in for one or two for sure

The way I usually do coolant flanges (1.8T and 16V for e.g.) is we provide enough thickness in the model so that it can be tapped for AN-20 fittings. That way if you want to use OEM hose :
- AN-20 to 1.25" barb male union
If you want to run AN connections between the radiator & the flange , AN-20 male union + AN-20 push lock fitting and voila never have to worry about coolant hoses again.
Of course I could CNC machine them as well but now we are talking -$200-300 a part.

No sorry I meant getting alloy parts/prototypes made, using laser melting for example? A mate of mine uses a local firm for this, for reproducing castings for historic race cars etc. Not cheap but cheaper than tooling for conventional casting. He rates the quality of the material

Metal 3D printing needs to come down in price first before I can even begin to look at one. I will tell you , the day a machine comes under $10K is the day I sell my $80K CNC! Sell CNC for $60K....buy 6 Metal 3D printers

These are some of the links for the guys trying to make them affordable:

http://3dprintingindustry.com/2014/09/23/sub-4000-metal-3d-printer/

http://3dprintingindustry.com/2014/07/21/matterfab-launches-affordable-3d-metal-printing-2/

I have heard talks about machines becoming more affordable but have not seen any as yet. Food for though , when I first looked @ 3D printers in 2009 , the one I wanted was 35,000 CAD and could only print an 8 x 6 x 6" part. That would mean for an intake manifold I would have to print it in 3-4 sections so roughly 40-45 hours of printing. The printer I got was just under 8K and can print a 10 x 12 x 12 part but I want bigger.

[orignalS60]

It would be cool to have an aluminum thermostat housing with provision for -AN fittings for
the AAN engine.