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Wanted: Volunteers to test product to aid front strut-mounts.

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  • #31
    I'll be in a position to fit a set too, look like the perfect update!
    1996 Audi S2 - 295bhp and 326lb/ft - Complete Rebuild Project

    1994 Audi 80 - 2.0 8v (slow but reliable!)

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    • #32
      PM sent sir.

      Strut-Stops: quietly keeping simple stock strut top-mounts sufficiently strong and supple.
      Last edited by Lago Blue; 1 May 2020, 04:12.

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      • #33
        Hi,

        After only 5000km of use one of my new Audi original rear shocks has started leaking.

        Audi S2 1996 ABY Coupe.

        So I am planning to change all four to new Koni Sport shocks, (Using standard springs) At the same time I will be replacing the top mounts as a matter of good maintenance. I have 4 new Audi green top mounts ready to go in.

        We chatted previously on testing your top mount upgrades, can you advise what is required and the cost of a front and rear modification kit.

        Lots of potholes in South Africa I need to protect the top mounts as best as I can.

        Thanks

        Steve

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        • #34
          PM sent sir.

          Strut-Stops: people prefer to put in place a pre pot-hole preventative prescription to possibly provide permanent protection.
          Last edited by Lago Blue; 31 May 2019, 13:15.

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          • #35
            "Strut-Stops" pass the two-point-five year point in independent testing...

            End of early adopter pricing for Strut-Stops looms...

            All quiet on the enhanced OEM top-mount front. No reported mount failures. Thank you testers and fellow forum members for choosing Strut-Stops.

            Current price offer ends 30 Jun.

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            • #36
              Only just caught onto these from Chris's use of them on the Classic Audi forum, Can I take a set please as about to do mine again for 2nd time in 3 years!!!! Let me know payment details etc etc Great product and idea
              1986 Coupe q - 2281cc 3B, chargecooler, 2.75" exh & downpipe, ported head, water injection, CGR box, modified MD357 turbo, 440cc injectors, high power coil.
              2004 A4 2.5TDi convertible, re-mapped to 180bhp
              2011 A5 sportback 3TDi-Backbox delete, remap

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              • #37
                I'm interested to get a couple as well.
                Audi S2 -1994 | 480 Hp 650 Nm | FlexFuel | MaxxECU | 3" Stainless | Porsche GT3 Front Brakes
                http://www.garaget.org/?car=52877

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                • #38
                  PM's sent gentlemen.

                  Strut-Stops: Seeking to change the conversation around OEM top-mount capacity from one of obvious deficit to that of at least some in excess.

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                  • #39
                    "Strut-Stops" passed the 3.25 year point in independent testing at end of February past...

                    Still no mount failures to report I'm quite happy to say.

                    However, coincidentally approx. the beginning of the current singularity may mark the end of line for dealer supplied BOGE made Audi P/N suffix 355A mounts.

                    With the arrival of an order for a couple of these top-mounts quite a few weeks ago now, I was told by the parts person that I'd apparently purchased the last of these which had to be sourced from dealers across North America. However as this sort of dealer to dealer transfer is not altogether unusual, he couldn't say if they were truly NLA. At the time there was nothing official. But as that mirrored what I'd heard from a customer in the UK (Tractor Dave in fact), I wrote to both Audi and ZF. I just received a response from Audi Canada which confirms they will no longer supply this item. I also wrote to ZF, but have yet to hear back.

                    So, you may be lucky indeed to still find a pair of these last type at this point.

                    Plan B is as follows:

                    a) Still in both the BOGE and Sachs catalogs, each offer two different P/N'd mounts for the B1 through B4 range of chassis models. However, only one Boge (P/N 88-787-A (1st photo)) and one Sachs (P/N 802 453 (2nd photo)) are listed for the latest and heaviest cars (and tellingly, these two are also listed as 'HD' mounts for the earlier and lighter cars!), which ought to be quite close to the 355A's predecessor, the most recently superseded Audi P/N, the suffix 323D dealer sourced BOGE's;

                    b) Tomorrow I'm going to post a list below of the Audi P/N's for the BOGE made but dealer supplied mounts and their relevant dates etc. going backwards, so that folks can have some idea of the relative strength of mounts they may find out there; &

                    c) As the only mount I found at Audi Tradition was listed under "Support", rather than the expected "Retainer", but more surprising was that the P/N written in their listing did not match the P/N in the photo (never a good sign), and neither number looked like a recent one, this avenue appears to currently have its pot-holes. To their credit, at least the listing appears to indicate that this item is for the mid-1980 to mid-1991 Sport quattro models and a few others (I believe the item pictured there was a slightly earlier version).

                    Nevertheless, I will continue to supply "Strut-Stops" as before, as they have proved successful thus far. My hope is that there is enough excess capacity, at least in the combination of either of the 2 current ZF family mounts (note both boxes pictured below also say 'ZF') detailed in para a) above, plus the "Strut-Stops" reinforcement; that all will be satisfactory. This will require a new round of testing for which I will happily provide some limited number of reduced price kits (like I did previously) for those brave enough to try them earliest, in exchange for rapid deployment and timely feed-back.

                    Strut Top-Mounts Boge 88-787-A and box 2 Screen Shot 2021-02-26 at 15.20.54 copy.png Strut Top-Mount and box Sachs 802 453 Screen Shot 2021-02-13 at 16.40.48.png
                    Last edited by Lago Blue; 2 May 2023, 15:52.

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                    • #40
                      Audi / BOGE Strut Top-Mount Hierarchy & Chronology...

                      This is an attempt to provide some history and possibly helpful perspective; and will eventually do a couple of things:

                      a) The primary reason this is important is because visually, you cannot tell what the load capacity of a given mount is by simply looking at its' shape, height, colour, brand or the box it came in etc., (and ignoring the P/N). Load capacity is the only worthwhile measure and yet also the unlisted discriminator you should use when choosing top-mounts. Much else is time-wasting, and to judge the relative load rating, one has to know the chronology; ergo this post. We can infer the load capacity by noting both the date that a particular mount version was introduced and the relative vehicle weights at that time. Just as tire and spring load capacities have to increase over the years, so too did strut-mount capacity. By listing the successive Audi P/N's for the always strictly BOGE made part, available from the Audi dealer, for the Mac. strut's top-mount by intro date along with the Audi models of the period which employ these mounts, we can see the occasions when it was up-graded through the years and also point towards directly as to why; &

                      b) The secondary reason this is important is that when this last and strongest version of this mount becomes truly NLA, procrastinators and late-comers may have to, want and wish to know where a given mount ranks, and have to work their way back down the evolutionary tree as necessary, in pursuit of the most peak load-capable and durable remaining mounts to be found.

                      Although most versions are visually indistinguishable and to the unknowing, interchangeable; each successive P/N represents a slightly improved tougher mount than previously which is really only backwards compatible. Clearly, each version was used to provide only Audi's absolute minimum necessary response to the ever increasing weight of successive cars. This is borne out by the wide experience of owners through the years for whom, through all these superceding versions, mounts have, while found satisfactory at least initially when new, have subsequently and continuously failed and failed early. This is why owners should seek the latest mounts possible.

                      As each new (and necessarily stronger) version was introduced by Audi, all the other mount manufacturers could opt to follow along with similar offerings, or not (or perhaps just say that they did!). An interesting wrinkle, likely unintended, is that the very last version, the Audi dealer P/N suffix 355A mount for the heaviest V6 and later cars, was never formally listed by Audi in ETKA. So outside of ZF (or perhaps BOGE at the time), no other manufacturer would have necessarily been aware of that last upgrade, and even if they were able to duplicate its capacity and durability or wanted to try, they simply may not have seen any need to improve their now comparatively even weaker offerings.

                      At the same time, it may be instructive to think of what cars (and particularly the weights of which!) were brought into production concurrently with various mount versions, as BOGE would have been asked by Audi to re-make this part on each occasion through the several necessary load capacity upgrades.

                      I do think there may be other numbers out there, and I don’t claim this list to be perfect, so if you have other info; please pipe in.

                      Most of these P/N's and dates are from a conversation between SCarGo and Just Paul years ago on Audiworld.


                      The Audi B1 which may have had the earliest version of our type of top-mount was available in 1972 (835 kg / 1841 lbs).

                      The 1974 Audi 50, in a version with the 0.895 ltr, engine may have been the lightest car with this type mounts (685 kg / 1503 lbs).

                      The first Audi B2 front wheel drive debuted in 1978 with a 1272 cc engine (890 kg / 1962 lbs).

                      - The 1st supercession I know of was as of 11/30/1980 when the original plain (no suffix) 811 412 323 mount was dropped and replaced with the 811 412 323 A

                      Late 1980 would have been when the Ur Quattro was being introduced (1,290 kg / 2,844 lbs).

                      - 2nd: The above was dropped as of 01/31/1981 for 811 412 323 C.

                      - 3rd & 4th: Both 857 412 323A & 857 412 323B likely appeared about here.

                      - 5th: Similarly, the famous blue low-profile UrQ mount must have appeared somewhere hereabouts, but was likely not ever listed as a proper replacement for the standard-height items. The installed height was lower, but it was not stronger nor was it more durable.

                      In 1988 the larger B3 cars were introduced. In 1989, the 20v would have been incorporated into the UrQ (1,350 kg / 2,976 lbs).

                      The B3 Coupe, which always out-weighed the same year sedan, was: (1990 - 1440 kgs / 3174 lbs), and then (1991 - 1500 kgs / 3308 lbs).

                      - 6th: The above was dropped as of 12/31/1992 for 811 412 323 D. The V6 cars would have been introduced earlier that year (1370 kg / 3020 lbs).

                      - 7th: The above was dropped as of 06/30/1993 for 8A0 412 323 B. The RS2 Avant is available from mid-1993 (1595 kg / 3516 lbs).

                      - 8th: The above was dropped as of 02/28/1996 for the penultimate 8A0 412 323 D.

                      All save one of the proceeding P/N's (the "blue" mount) were at times listed in the dealers' ETKA as the current item, raising the publicly visible bar for other makers, if they were so inclined to visit an Audi dealer and ask for the latest strut-mount P/N.

                      Again, as a kind of perhaps accidental (or not!) barrier to an otherwise more equal playing field for other mount-makers, because the last BOGE version (see the 9th listed version's P/N below) was not brought into Audi's ETKA, this latest "un-listed" and last upgraded BOGE remained at least one unadvertised technical step above its predecessors; and by reputation and outright testing became recognized as ahead of all other makers' possible offerings. Very clever. Kind of like James Watt, who when labeling his newly-invented steam-engine as but one horsepower, whilst ensuring it was more than capable of what any one real-life horse could ever demonstrate. Sort of reverse-bragging!

                      - 9th: The penultimate above was dropped as of at least 03/22/2006 if not sooner for the ultimate 8A0 412 355 A.

                      If one can assume for a moment that the front mounts together carry roughly 2/3rds of the total car weight in all cases, then note that through the years, this little item has been morphed from having to carry a mere 228kg / 503 lbs. each, to 531kg / 1172 lbs. each, all with the car sitting empty. That doubling of just the static loading alone (bearing in mind the not insignificant dynamic loads mounts see); ought to make it pretty clear why you may want the latest ones possible.
                      Last edited by Lago Blue; 3 January 2024, 23:50.

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                      • #41
                        Bump! (...looking back briefly at the pot-hole, now in the rear-view mirror) "Whew, that was close!" What's to say that next time won't be worse and you might not be so lucky tomorrow?

                        Predictions abound as to where we are currently headed. This one isn't too surprising. You are going to bust your top-mounts; repeatedly. Perhaps you hadn't realized Audi has been fitting that type of predictive suspension as original equipment; for over 30 years! Short of repeating that too familiar pattern or retrofitting some of what is shown below, this mod is about what may be both a satisfactory and simpler choice; and less expensive than either.

                        Strut-Stops - PPE for top-mounts.

                        Audi’s Predictive Suspension illustration.png
                        Last edited by Lago Blue; 12 November 2020, 05:47.

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                        • #42
                          Hi bud can I have a set of these please

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                          • #43
                            Certainly sir,

                            Pm sent.

                            Strut-Stops - providing owners good reason to forget about having to keep replacing their top-mounts, for four years now.

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                            • #44
                              Hi LB. Please forgive my ignorance but can you please clarify the price & exactly what you get, posted to the UK. A true enthusiast, owned my ‘94 S2 for 22 years now!! Still a love hate relationship!!
                              ATB

                              RAOUL

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                              • #45
                                Hello Raoul,

                                No apology necessary sir, my fault entirely (I've re-written my ad again to hopefully ease comprehension), currently Strut-Stops are $30.00Cdn. per set (one set required for every two mounts) plus postage and packing, usually a little less than $15.00Cdn. to the UK. See test kit contents described and photos in ad via Lago Blue coloured link in first post on page one of this thread.

                                Yes totally agree, decades on I am still similarly afflicted, as it does send me mentally as well as take me!
                                Last edited by Lago Blue; 14 November 2021, 12:23.

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