S2 Avant MTM -> RS2 -> GT3071R -> CT355

[A80Avant]

very nice results!!
what type of dyno was that?roller or hub?

[EspenW]

I think you are right regarding the plotted WHP. The Engine HP is correct and the WHP is too high. We have tested many S2 cars at this particular rolling road and they always have around 15% difference between engine HPs and wheel HPs. I find it a bit strange, because they should be able to measure the WHP on the rollers and calculate the Engine HP from that shouldn't they?

On a RR, WHP is measured and flywheel hp is guesstimated. Some guess 10% loss and others guess 30%+, so estimated flywheel power will vary, to put it mildly.
They can do an unloaded coastdownloss, but that only indicates the losses through the transmission when the car is rolling backwards without load, so it is worthless in the real world.

[Bram]

Well, if you put it like that then the WHP measuement is very impressive! The measurements have been conducted on a Superflow WinDyn V 4x4 (up to 1500 hp > 310 Km/h), which are known to be the most reliable here in the Netherlands. I do not know if somebody knows this brand? http://www.superflow.com/dynamometers/index_833.cfm

Anyway we have data from this superflow bench from 25 S2s (originals + chipped ones), 4 RS2s and many other cars and the engine HP figures most of the times comply to other rolling roads or factory specs or assumed modification numbers. I also remember that some people here on the forum said the RS2 IC is good up to 420 HP so I think the 424 HP figure is still correct :-)

[quattrostyle]

very nice results Bram

[EspenW]

Well, if you put it like that then the WHP measuement is very impressive! The measurements have been conducted on a Superflow WinDyn V 4x4 (up to 1500 hp > 310 Km/h), which are known to be the most reliable here in the Netherlands. I do not know if somebody knows this brand? http://www.superflow.com/dynamometers/index_833.cfm

Anyway we have data from this superflow bench from 25 S2s (originals + chipped ones), 4 RS2s and many other cars and the engine HP figures most of the times comply to other rolling roads or factory specs or assumed modification numbers. I also remember that some people here on the forum said the RS2 IC is good up to 420 HP so I think the 424 HP figure is still correct :-)

The Superflow is a good dyno, and reads lower (and more accurate) than most. A dyno operator can tweak the correction factors so that the estimated engine output is whatever he chooses, so making a stock engine produce stock results is not a problem. I always find it amusing when dyno operators claim their method to be the correct one when they get factory numbers from severely underrated VAG engines like the 1.8T, 2.0T, 1.4TFsi, etc. These engines put out more than quoted engine power at the hubs on the very accurate Rototest hub dyno.
WHP is the only thing that is measured, and it can vary by extreme amounts between different dynos, so it should be used with caution. Check this:

http://www.turbomagazine.com/tech/0306tur_turbo_magazine_dyno_dash/index.html

However, there is no doubt that yours is putting out a healthy dose of power. I would estimate around 450 hp at the crank.

[A80Avant]

Bram,your dyno results kind of makes me a bit more comfortable with my dyno experiences so far! I would probably give another go on a rototest dyno to be honest,as i had made 334whp @ 1.5bar and hopefully produce a bit more with the new remap.In any case your map is slightly more aggressive than mine and the EVO manifold can give you that ability.I have 2 possibilities: 1) strech the OEM manifold to it's limits and then go for the EVO,or play it safe!

Well i like option number one,especially since i have plans for the future!

By the way,get a bigger manifold or get a water injection.I believe it will make a difference!I bet it makes quite a difference in mine!

[Bram]

The Superflow is a good dyno, and reads lower (and more accurate) than most. A dyno operator can tweak the correction factors so that the estimated engine output is whatever he chooses, so making a stock engine produce stock results is not a problem. I always find it amusing when dyno operators claim their method to be the correct one when they get factory numbers from severely underrated VAG engines like the 1.8T, 2.0T, 1.4TFsi, etc. These engines put out more than quoted engine power at the hubs on the very accurate Rototest hub dyno.
WHP is the only thing that is measured, and it can vary by extreme amounts between different dynos, so it should be used with caution. Check this:

http://www.turbomagazine.com/tech/0306tur_turbo_magazine_dyno_dash/index.html

However, there is no doubt that yours is putting out a healthy dose of power. I would estimate around 450 hp at the crank.

Thanks. interesting read! The Superflow gives the lowest results in that particular test. If I should take the WHP numbers from my run, then indeed I should have now around 450 HP at the crank

So I expect to get more out of the turbo in the future with some nice updates :mischeif:

[gedu]

powerwise, you are already near the limit. +15 or so can be realized, but that is quite a work to get, as you turbo is just starting to run out of puff

Upgrade to different turbo, and you might be surprised Of course, always remember, that 20-30HP you just cant feel with your but dyno :mischeif:

[Bram]

GT30 it is then

[A80Avant]

Bram,im starting to think that the GT30 will not give a hell of a lot big improvement than what we already have...I was thinking of one of the turbos repo is suggesting,capable of well over 500hp,maybe 570-580 so that with a nice 1.5bar or so can deliver 500hp and then have the margin for more...Unstressfull situations! hehe

[Bram]

Papvas, I will for sure stay with my GT3071R for a while. I have the feeling there can be made some improvements with the engine itself (porting the cyl. head, Alu flywheel, etc.) and that the turbo is not my limiting factor at this moment......

[A80Avant]

yes i agree.However i think i will make parts to use but i dont think i will put them on with this turbo,cause otherwise i would have to remap on the motronic.I think VEMS+exhaust manifold+bigger turbo+ head porting would be done at some point,but the thing is that with this turbo we have,and with these figures,i think we have done something like aron did... a nice 400-450 everyday sleeperwagon!!! So yes it is very enjoyable!

[Bram]

So if I read and learn from some of the other threads and I take 25-30% drivetrain losses into account then the measured 368 WheelHP of my car can be translated into 460-475 HP........

Is that possible on a OEM ABY cylinder head running ADU cams and the RS2 IC?

If so, and I read that Kalsket hit 458HP on a flowed cylinderhead with a GT2871R then indeed I think I should be able to push out close to 480-490HP with this turbo.....

[A80Avant]

Well i think 25-30% drive terain losses are a bit exaggerated IMO.But things should not be too far away from that figure.
After new years,i will try and measure my car with the PB,and see what happens...
Also if you measure the car on the street and get a WHP figure it is more accurate than the dyno,you only need to add the losses due to drag from driveterain and air.

[Bram]

Well, we also did a run in 3rd gear and it showed similar WHP, however the Engine HP went down by 10.
So I guess the WHP that were measured should be correct.
Directly after my car an Audi 90 with a 7A engine was running and it produced 152HP after all these years and with rusty injectors that seems reasonable.....

And I guess my own modified RS2 airbox and Wagner EM really help the performance figures as well