S2 Avant MTM -> RS2 -> GT3071R -> CT355

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  • Jaco
    S2Forum Hobbyist
    • Feb 2009
    • 15
    • Country: Netherlands

    #316
    Today is the day Bram, how are things progressing?

    Comment

    • A80Avant
      S2Forum Obsessed
      • Sep 2005
      • 10873
      • Country: Greece

      #317
      what?? do we have a map???

      Comment

      • H_man
        S2Forum Hobbyist
        • Sep 2009
        • 15
        • Home: South Africa Current: Latvia

        #318
        All the best with the mapping hope you get the figures that you want!!!!:-)

        Comment

        • repo
          S2Forum Maniac
          • Dec 2004
          • 893
          • Country: Finland

          #319
          Here's a situation update.

          Virtual pint for anyone who knows what it means.
          Attached Files
          Everything less than 2 bar is considered to be naturally aspirated

          Comment

          • Bram
            S2Forum Fiend
            • Aug 2006
            • 2582
            • Country: Netherlands

            #320
            I know what it is! But will not tell what this neat tool is, so guys just guess

            Today we finished mapping the car It's ****ing mental
            I flew Jyrki Repo in from Finland and for the last 2,5 days we have been setting up the car by clocking the cams and setting up a lot of VEMS parameters.

            A lot of things in VEMS I do not understand and Jyrki works so fast while I was driving the car so I learned not a lot. The basic things though I understand a bit better especially the safety settings with fuel, EGT, etc.

            I think the car setup went quite smooth, and I am very happy with how the car pulls now. I have a good off-boost drivability, 1.9 bar of boost around 3400 RPM in 3th gear and up, and 2.2 bar at the red line. It's really hammering hard the whole RPM band without knocking or holding back.

            Jyrki thank you very much for mapping my car. I am really happy about it!

            Comment

            • repo
              S2Forum Maniac
              • Dec 2004
              • 893
              • Country: Finland

              #321
              Thanks, Bram, glad You're happy.

              Before anyone asks, we had some issues to solve.

              First of all, the trigger system built into the VEMS is based on three sensors, the 135 teeth starter gear, the single reference sensor on the flywheel, and the hall sensor on the cams. The Reference pin needs to come in the window on the hall sensor on the cam, otherwise VEMS does not get crank position reading, and thus will not start.

              When working on cam timing, there is not much possibility to adjust the hall timing and same time keep the all important valve opening values in control, so after reclocking the cams the hall window on the belt pulley was off for at least 10 degrees.

              Luckily we came in prepared, and replaced the intake cam with a 3b one, that comes with dizzy drive gear at the back. So after cam operation we just put the dizzy on, timed it to factory marks, extended the hall wire on the engine loom.

              This is something that also someone else might run into.

              The cam timing itself stays "trade secret".

              And then there is another issue, related to the picture posted earlier, and is yet to be solved.

              Nevertheless, nice build by Bram. Nice and unobtrusive setup, no extra nods or noises. Nice, original looks, yet pretty good pull from 3500 up to +7000rpm.

              Good work, I'd say.
              Everything less than 2 bar is considered to be naturally aspirated

              Comment

              • Jamo
                Retired OG Mod
                • Mar 2004
                • 21750
                • Country: United Kingdom

                #322
                Originally posted by repo
                Here's a situation update.

                Virtual pint for anyone who knows what it means.
                Isn't that a vacuum meter? shows if your airfilter needs replacing or isn't up to the job

                Comment

                • A80Avant
                  S2Forum Obsessed
                  • Sep 2005
                  • 10873
                  • Country: Greece

                  #323
                  nice results!

                  i was expecting the 355 to have full boost from 3200ish rpm on 3d gear. I have 3400-3500 with the 3071 and original inlet manifold, which means that it is quite good,but it should have been better esp. with the 3bb. I bet powerwise it should be much better obviously!

                  repo, i lost you a bit there with the cam settings.Obviously what i would do if i tampered any of these things would be to get a strobe light and check the timing and adjust it on the trigger setting in VEMS so that the reading is correct
                  Last edited by A80Avant; 24 October 2009, 19:06.

                  Comment

                  • Jamo
                    Retired OG Mod
                    • Mar 2004
                    • 21750
                    • Country: United Kingdom

                    #324
                    Originally posted by repo
                    Thanks, Bram, glad You're happy.

                    Before anyone asks, we had some issues to solve.

                    First of all, the trigger system built into the VEMS is based on three sensors, the 135 teeth starter gear, the single reference sensor on the flywheel, and the hall sensor on the cams. The Reference pin needs to come in the window on the hall sensor on the cam, otherwise VEMS does not get crank position reading, and thus will not start.

                    When working on cam timing, there is not much possibility to adjust the hall timing and same time keep the all important valve opening values in control, so after reclocking the cams the hall window on the belt pulley was off for at least 10 degrees.

                    Luckily we came in prepared, and replaced the intake cam with a 3b one, that comes with dizzy drive gear at the back. So after cam operation we just put the dizzy on, timed it to factory marks, extended the hall wire on the engine loom.

                    This is something that also someone else might run into.

                    The cam timing itself stays "trade secret".

                    And then there is another issue, related to the picture posted earlier, and is yet to be solved.

                    Nevertheless, nice build by Bram. Nice and unobtrusive setup, no extra nods or noises. Nice, original looks, yet pretty good pull from 3500 up to +7000rpm.

                    Good work, I'd say.
                    Sounds good to me.

                    I thought timing could be adjusted in the VEMS and by the use of a dahlback adjustable cam pulley which shifts the hall trigger?

                    Comment

                    • quattro84
                      S2Forum Maniac
                      • Mar 2006
                      • 947
                      • Country: Netherlands

                      #325
                      Hmm.. i'd guess the filter is for measuring compressor surge reflecting trough the ported shroud

                      Comment

                      • repo
                        S2Forum Maniac
                        • Dec 2004
                        • 893
                        • Country: Finland

                        #326
                        Well, this timing gear is modified original, for longevity reasons, unlike the dahlbäck one which is aluminum.

                        It is practically impossible to tell the exact timing of the hall signal with this gear, so eventually it went off. It would have been possible to fix it by jumping a belt over teeth, if I had oscilloscope and time to do it all over, but we chose the more convenient route, I knew will fix the issue at once.

                        Timing light won't help a bit, as VEMS does not give spark at all, if hall is off.

                        Yes, in my previous experiences the 355 has been pushing peak boost a bit earlier, there are three reasons for this minor delay in full spool.

                        1) previous ones have been with my tubular EM, this one is with Carsten's cast unit

                        2) this one has restrictive intake filter. The gidget Jamo recognized (cheers), is called Filter Minder(tm), and it tells exactly when the air filter is insufficient. This one went to vacuum before we hit 4000rpm and 1.6 bar. We also bought a K&N cone, but despites of it's larger filter area, it lacks the ram effect, and was even more restrictive than the original airbox and K&N panel.

                        3) this car has veryvery quiet exhaust system, with I think three mufflers, which causes backpressure.
                        Everything less than 2 bar is considered to be naturally aspirated

                        Comment

                        • A80Avant
                          S2Forum Obsessed
                          • Sep 2005
                          • 10873
                          • Country: Greece

                          #327
                          For all those reasons then 3400rpm full boost is quite good then i must admit!

                          With the ADU cams being off juice from 5500rpm or so, what do you think this setup is giving now repo? I mean with the 3b inlet and ABY exhaust? (or is it 7A exhaust cam?)

                          Comment

                          • repo
                            S2Forum Maniac
                            • Dec 2004
                            • 893
                            • Country: Finland

                            #328
                            I don't know. Should be 500ish hp. At least his deka006 injectors are on ~80% DC with 4bar fpr. Although I tune daily drivers quite rich for safety reasons.

                            It is ADU ex cam. My guess would be the peak power is at around 6500 rpm.
                            Everything less than 2 bar is considered to be naturally aspirated

                            Comment

                            • A80Avant
                              S2Forum Obsessed
                              • Sep 2005
                              • 10873
                              • Country: Greece

                              #329
                              im saying that because with the 3071R i have noticed that above 5500rpm if i keep the same fueling on the map, it gets very rich. This means that the VE is actually getting lower on that region because the cams are not able to work as efficiently on those regions.

                              Comment

                              • Jamo
                                Retired OG Mod
                                • Mar 2004
                                • 21750
                                • Country: United Kingdom

                                #330
                                Which filter would you recommend to rectify this? only the HKS green or are there alternatives like this one? http://www.roosemotorsport.co.uk/pro...5555a0g09naft2

                                Comment

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