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struikie - Audi 80 B4 quattro project

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  • #61
    Picked up my second VR6. Left the used one, on the right the 'new' crate motor.


    Also got some stuff to relocate the battery to the boot and the amps.
    I now have everything but the head unit (which I hope was on the Ever Given).


    Looking forward to installing it all!

    JW

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    • #62
      Did some work on the audio install.

      Earth connection. Sanded down the paint on the contact surface and protected it
      with Kontakt Protection spray.




      Fitted the battery tray and added some foam to prevent sliding as I don't have
      the bar to secure the battery. Now the strap is good enough.




      Placed the fuse holder.




      Routed the 50mm2 cable under the carpet.


      Connection point for the amplifiers and sub (later). 50mm2 in and out to the
      engine compartment, 35mm2 to the amps.


      Fuse holder for the amps an sub. 16mm2 cable to the amps.


      Amps under the rear deck. The blue remote wire needs to connected to both amps.




      Placed the fuse holder in the engine compartment. The red wires will get a
      black sleeve in the future. Still need to connect the new cable to the
      original cables.


      Nice.


      The head unit I ordered in March still isn't available, so a bought a second hand
      Pioneer DEH-X8700BT. It has bluetooth hands free and the colours of the
      buttons and display can be tuned to the car.


      JW
      Last edited by struikie; 15 August 2021, 13:56.

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      • #63
        nice progress

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        • #64
          Great work on the battery relocation and power cables, loving the rare battery cover, Is the battery tray still an available part?

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          • #65
            Thanks!
            The tray is still available at Audi Tradition.
            https://shops.audi.com/de_DE/web/tra...erm=8A0809353B

            JW

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            • #66




              I wonder why the shocks didn't do much any more.......

              New Sachs for the front, Monroe for the rear.
              These will do until, eventually, the KW V3 will be acquired. Or maybe these damper will be awesome...





              JW

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              • #67
                Nothing wrong with Sachs and Monroe, both make good quality products.
                1992 C4 100 2.8 Avant quattro, daily driver.
                1995 RS2, MTM K26/7, 380 BHP conversion.
                1996 C4 2.8 30V quattro, future project car...

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                • #68
                  KW V3 = 2200 euro
                  Sachs 33 euro a piece and Monroe 69 euro a piece

                  But, more expensive doesn't always mean better. I did stay away from sketchier brands though...

                  JW

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                  • #69
                    Well, above is a little blond moment of mine.
                    Turns out that there needs to be 50cc of oil in the strut to help with heat dissipation...

                    JW

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by struikie View Post
                      Well, above is a little blond moment of mine.
                      Turns out that there needs to be 50cc of oil in the strut to help with heat dissipation...

                      JW
                      This is exactly where I went wrong years ago ,that oil needs to be there

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                      • #71
                        It's actually supposed to be 50ml of neat antifreeze in the strut tubes as we've recently discussed in length on B5Nut's project thread, that said any fluid will do the same job of transferring heat to the shock housing. I've seen gear oil being used for this purpose and did use WD-40 myself, though now I've thought about I'm not sure that's such a good idea given how volatile it get's when hot.

                        I have to admit I wrongly assumed the fluid was to stop the insert seizing in place in the housing having had no end of bother getting failed dampers out a couple of times.
                        1992 C4 100 2.8 Avant quattro, daily driver.
                        1995 RS2, MTM K26/7, 380 BHP conversion.
                        1996 C4 2.8 30V quattro, future project car...

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          I did antifreeze year ago, trouble is it doesn't hold its anti corrosion properties forever, and when removing the strut found untold amounts of rust in there -this time with B6s, I just squirted cavity wax in there and left it at that.

                          I'm oil sure works well in there too, but more for dampers that fit the struts more closely than the B6s.

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Bowie69 View Post
                            I did antifreeze year ago, trouble is it doesn't hold its anti corrosion properties forever, and when removing the strut found untold amounts of rust in there -this time with B6s, I just squirted cavity wax in there and left it at that.

                            I'm oil sure works well in there too, but more for dampers that fit the struts more closely than the B6s.
                            I like the idea of cavity wax, good thinking!
                            1992 C4 100 2.8 Avant quattro, daily driver.
                            1995 RS2, MTM K26/7, 380 BHP conversion.
                            1996 C4 2.8 30V quattro, future project car...

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Hi Strulkie,

                              For any help this might be, here's my questions and reco's re your dampers past, present and planned; and their installation.

                              The dampers:

                              While I must agree with Mr Simmonds that Sachs and Monroe do make some fine products, I find it hard to believe that any damper could perform well enough on a lowered street car such as yours on roads local to me to ever be considered satisfactory for daily driving from my point of view, just my humble observation. Lovely car and some great work BTW.

                              - As those removed yellow dampers are Koni's, they can likely be rebuilt if need be, and perhaps very near to you; and worth something to somebody;

                              - As your price difference between the set of future KWs and your new four dampers is almost eleven to one, are you certain the KWs are even ten, nine, eight or just roughly, how many times the damper of what you already have might they be? Have you ridden in a lowered Limo so equipped on a typically poor stretch of road and been satisfied with the ride? As others with direct experience have raised concerns with some models, I remain skeptical as follows.

                              - If the KWs are a high performance strut, could you perhaps fit an ordinary B6 / B8 Bilstein inside for instance? If not, then how can one really expect greater performance than from what can fit inside a stock 55mm strut body? For instance, Koni and Bilstein cartridges become more stout as their performance rating increases, there has to be a reason for that healthy volume they have. Some KWs do appear rather skinny.

                              - One may want to look into exactly what name brand, original intended fitment and construction type / quality of damper the KWs enclose. Is it an ordinary single atmospheric twin-tube, a low-pressure gas twin-tube or a high-pressure gas mono-tube? High performance would require a true high-pressure mono-tube type. Is that what you get?

                              - Can you buy just a replacement cartridge for the KWs and perform that change-out yourself?

                              - Can you have the KWs cartridge rebuilt like the Koni and Bilstein can, or are they throw-aways?

                              The install:

                              On a street-driven Audi B2 / 3 / 4 with OEM type dampers, the greater threat to damper service-life (which ought to over-ride sporting performance considerations when using this base model equipment) is not over-heating but water damage. The stock install collects water (in the annular space between the strut body ID and the damper OD great or small, evidenced by the rust that falls out of a just opened and upended stock install); as it has no way out. The water may not even enter a twin-tube damper enclosed in a strut, but it will cause rust and it can freeze, crushing the damper body in some areas while causing it to expand outwards elsewhere, making them quite difficult to remove; even after freeing the rusted damper retaining cap-nuts. This particular type of freeze damage is specific to these exact OEM type dampers.

                              On the other hand we must remember here that the whole idea of fluid dampers is that they work precisely by turning linear motion into heat and lots of it. Yellow Bilstein mono-tubes mustn't be installed with fluid in their struts or they will fail, and yet one doesn't hear of them over-heating on the street or the track. Lesser twin-tubes can certainly be made to overheat more easily, but their fluid can boil easily because it is not under much pressure if any to begin with, and simple air cooling can never be enough to overcome that. They simply lack sufficient capacity.

                              Meanwhile, the stock Audi damper retaining cap-nut and installed boot do not ensure that the interior of the strut body will remain dry. Even without any wet weather, condensation will form on your cooling damper shaft and fall into the strut body, which is essentially a tall skinny bucket underneath a lid which is neither water nor water-vapour proof or even water-shedding. Deep inside the bottom of your struts, the water may not again evaporate, but may indeed accumulate.

                              Since some Koni strut cartridge insets (type 8611 for instance) require a half-inch hole to be made centered in the base of the strut body for in-situ adjustment access, one shouldn't balk at a much smaller hole located similarly to ensure simple drainage yet large enough to not plug from migrating cavity wax. This combi approach provides for both corrosion protection and a route for gravity drainage to always take place, thus ensuring the entire interior annular space remains dry and protected.

                              This issue often gets ignored or skipped because it is not an obvious issue on the install, it is a mod and folks are uncomfortable putting holes in struts and/or folks feel this somehow doesn't apply to their install. Barring an obvious fault such as missing boots, it is a threat which develops over the longer term. Prevention, which can only be done in advance, is simple, quick, cheap and worth pounds of cure.

                              You can read more about this issue here:

                              https://www.s2forum.com/forum/techni...15#post1233415

                              This is my understanding which I'm quite happy to discuss further. I hope this helps all our understanding of what may be going on here.
                              Last edited by Lago Blue; 23 November 2021, 19:00.

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                              • #75
                                Some answers:

                                I have never ridden a lowered 80 limo, but have driven countless miles in lowered cars:

                                1997 A4 B5 limo with Eibach/Bilstein 60/40 static set (230bhp 1.9TDI)
                                2005 A4 B7 estate with KW StreetComfort stainless coil overs (300bhp 2.0TDI)
                                2001 VW Lupo with H&R coilovers (85bhp 1.2 TDI - girlfriends car)
                                2006 BWM 335d estate with stock M-sport springs + bilstein B8 sprint (410bhp 3.0d)
                                (because of the upside down design, these did get water in them and a hole was drilled in the bottom)
                                The BMW now has the KW StreetComfort coil overs (rebound adjustable) which are awesome.

                                The new dampers on the 80 (as expected though) don't match the springs, but they do perform a little better
                                than the Koni's they replaced. They are still too soft for the springs, but they will do for now.

                                The Koni's are adjustable, but only after complete disassembly from the car...

                                The KW V3 replaces the struts completely and are rebound and compression adjustable.
                                The rear dampers have an external reservoir. From my previous and current experience with KW
                                I would buy them again in a heartbeat.
                                KW dampers can be rebuilt.

                                JW
                                Last edited by struikie; 21 November 2021, 11:38.

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