turbochargers for 500hp

[snp10]

With HX35 super we are a little bit offtopic here, because the subject is 500 hp turbos. Hx35 super can get 500 hp only with W/M kit. For example in Romania methanol is an illegal substance, so we can't use it. Also other forum members that had a Holset experience event with HX35 super agreed that is a very good turbo for that price, but the response of it is not so fast like other turbos.

[PRY4SNO]

And isn't it also true that better fuel means you can use higher comp.ratio and higher timing making spool come sooner as well? My guess is that the 3800 could easily go to 4000 rpm with normal gasoline therefore making the HX35S a better turbo only by price. HTA 3076 has similar spool and makes more power with less boost but also costs double the price.

I think we have exhausted this thread again..

To my eye, this is a very true statement.

Price determines how much compromise one is willing to shoulder.

I was lucky that a few hundred bucks didn't influence my decision when I chose an EFR > PTE/HTA.

I have some dyno charts from my builder who did some beta testing with my EFR7163 but I'm reluctant to share them before I have a chance to install/tune things.

What I can say, is that the 7163 is nearly spot on with the response of a billet 30R but has more top end. And far better transient response.

[A80Avant]

And isn't it also true that better fuel means you can use higher comp.ratio and higher timing making spool come sooner as well? My guess is that the 3800 could easily go to 4000 rpm with normal gasoline therefore making the HX35S a better turbo only by price. HTA 3076 has similar spool and makes more power with less boost but also costs double the price.

I think we have exhausted this thread again..

[Quattronaut]

What are you trying to say with this? Power curve is completely normal for a 2.2T AAN with stock cams. If you want more power and peak power higher up top you use 7A.

Ok, that´s just what I wondered about- I thought that one was with 7A cams, and expected peak power at higher rpm level.

HX35 Super:
compressor 54/77
turbine 55/65

Thanks.

I've been in and mapped triple digits of 2.2T engined modified cars, I would like to think I know what I am talking about.

I did NOT want to raise doubt on your experience or knowledge, Dmitri, I know your references in here. But when you say, that this turbo has better spoolup AND delievers more power that ANY K26/27 hybrid, that is spoken to generally, because there ARE K26/27 that DO have similar power and spoolup- even though they are really rare.

Btw, how about you people post some real dyno graphs from your cars

You even know that dyno sheets aren´t anything. Those can be wrong, can be manipulated, and you know that. So no, I do not have sheets, that is right, but I do not need them in a discussion where interested people just share experiences with different turbos without trying to compare their...hm. Lets say noses ;-) So I hope you accept, that the guys who drive this cars told me about there setups and the results, without showing off- there is no reason for lying or colouring them. Just private discussions. What I hoped we have in here ;-)

[prj]

Sweet curves right there! Estimated crank power or as measured at the hubs? (Dynapack hub dyno).

To get crank power a flat 20% loss is applied, as is shown on the graph (TCF 1.20).
Seems to work quite well for quattro - stock cars usually get stock numbers on this dyno.

So if you want hub hp, then divide by 1.2

[EspenW]

Sweet curves right there! Estimated crank power or as measured at the hubs? (Dynapack hub dyno).

[prj]

Comparing dynos with "exotic" fuels is quite difficult...As you say, the HX35 Super on normal fuel is a turbo for roundabout 450hp- and then full boost at around 4000 rpm is quite normal. What I´m wondering about is, that peak power is quite early; rpm difference between max torque and peak power is only ~2000?

What are you trying to say with this? Power curve is completely normal for a 2.2T AAN with stock cams. If you want more power and peak power higher up top you use 7A.
I've posted dyno graphs with 98 RON + WMI and they make 520hp. This is of course with slightly lower compression ratio, spoolup is the same.

Dmitri, do you have the wheel sizes of the HX35 and HX35 super for me? Turbine and compressor wheels, inlet and outlet? Or anyone else? Just to compare the estimated capacity.

HX35 Super:
compressor 54/77
turbine 55/65

This car is amazing on the road, it spins wheels in 2nd if the surface is even slightly uneven, the spool and re-spool is very quick. The HX35S is one of the best turbos for the 2.2T AAN.

I've been in and mapped triple digits of 2.2T engined modified cars, I would like to think I know what I am talking about.

Btw, how about you people post some real dyno graphs from your cars

[Quattronaut]

Standard HX35 Super from KKD. They have 8cm2 housing.

As for E85 - we have tuned a car with same turbo and meth injection before, and it was also about 520 hp.
Of course on standard gasoline you will struggle to go over 450-460.

The important part is the shape of the graph. Here we have full boost (2.1 bar) at 3800 rpm.
1.9 bar is even a little bit earlier. E85 or not, this is what I am talking about - this turbo spools much better than any K26/K27 hybrids and delivers more power.

Comparing dynos with "exotic" fuels is quite difficult...As you say, the HX35 Super on normal fuel is a turbo for roundabout 450hp- and then full boost at around 4000 rpm is quite normal. What I´m wondering about is, that peak power is quite early; rpm difference between max torque and peak power is only ~2000?

Friend of mine has a K26/27 that does 2,3bar @ 3500rpm; at the moment the peak power is still low with 1,8bar @6000 rpm, but it is not mapped out in upper rpm;"6" hotside
The other one, same turbo, full boost between 3300 and 3400 with 2,2bar, also not mapped out, but running quite good; "6" hotside
Third one: 1bar @ 2800rpm, 2,5bar @3200rpm, in an S4. This one has the "8" hotside, but another turbine wheel than the others.
All original KKK turbos, good for peak powers up to 450hp; all with the same compressor wheel, all with normal fuel, all with 2,2L.

Please everybody, do not understand that wrong; the dyno is great, I love it, and peak power is amazing. But I doubt the thing that the K26/27 aren´t able to do that you only have to take the right ones. 90% of the i5 turbos with K26/27 on the road use the 30 year old stuff; no question,that those are far away from being real good compared with today´s turbos. But KKK did their homeworks.

Dmitri, do you have the wheel sizes of the HX35 and HX35 super for me? Turbine and compressor wheels, inlet and outlet? Or anyone else? Just to compare the estimated capacity.

[diesel des]

Sorry Dmitri just read your earlier post that said spool and response is similar.

[diesel des]

Certainly looks good. Dmitri, what's it like between gear changes in comparison to say a gt3076r? Slower to get back on it by much? Just interested.

Should be a cheep turbo in comparison.

[prj]

Dmitri, what hotside was used?
I must say, that is very good spoolup for 2.2T and 500+hp.

Standard HX35 Super from KKD. They have 8cm2 housing.

As for E85 - we have tuned a car with same turbo and meth injection before, and it was also about 520 hp.
Of course on standard gasoline you will struggle to go over 450-460.

The important part is the shape of the graph. Here we have full boost (2.1 bar) at 3800 rpm.
1.9 bar is even a little bit earlier. E85 or not, this is what I am talking about - this turbo spools much better than any K26/K27 hybrids and delivers more power.

[rst]

Dmitri, what hotside was used?
I must say, that is very good spoolup for 2.2T and 500+hp.

[Thuppu]

Don't get fooled. It's with E85. Makes the biggest difference. I have seen up to 100 hp more quoted when tuned with e85

Yea, well, lol, 650hp with 35S isn't just possible. Dmitri's result is just the highest dyno graph I have seen with the 35S. Would need a little bit higher level to gain 100hp with e85.

[A80Avant]

Great result Dmitri, best I have seen with the 35 Super.

Don't get fooled. It's with E85. Makes the biggest difference. I have seen up to 100 hp more quoted when tuned with e85

[Thuppu]

Great result Dmitri, best I have seen with the 35 Super.